Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)

Category: Yeast bread
Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)


First, make sour dough (sourdough)
Wheat flour 50 grams
Rye flour 150 grams
Old kefir 150 ml.
Warm water 40-50 * 100 ml.
Salt 1/3 tsp
Sugar 1/2 tbsp. l.
Yeast saf moment 1/2 tsp
Main dough
Sour dough 220 grams
Wheat flour 400 gram
Vegetable oil 1 tbsp. l.
Salt 1 tsp
Sugar 1/2 tbsp. l.
Yeast saf moment 0.8-1 tsp
Warm water 40-50 * С 150 ml.

Cooking method

  • Preface to bread.
  • Do not forget about one more type of dough - "sour" dough!
  • This dough contains lactic acid bacteria, which in the process of "ripening" the dough release a harmonious composition of lactic and acetic acid, alcohols, carbon dioxide and aromatic substances, and which gives the bread a pleasant sour taste.
  • This is a method of separate fermentation of the dough, on which the main dough for bread or pies is then kneaded.
  • This acidified dough can be stored in the refrigerator for some time without compromising quality and used later to acidify the main dough for bread and pies.
  • The acidity of the finished bread will depend on the acidification time of the dough, the amount of acidified dough added to the main dough.
  • I draw your attention to the fact that this is not a leaven that needs to be fed, nursed.
  • But, this is a great option for full-fledged delicious bread baked on fermented dough in a short period of time.
  • The difference between leaven and sour dough is as follows.
  • Leaven (sour) is made with a small amount of flour, contains only flour and fermented milk products, and is constantly fed and renewed, must be constantly used and replenished, and needs a certain storage place for the sourdough.
  • Sour dough contains an almost complete composition of the dough (liquidish), is usually aged for 8-12 hours, is used in the main dough in whole or in part, can be stored in the refrigerator for about 2 weeks.
  • Such sour dough can be frozen, used in the dough as "old sour" dough, sourdough.
  • A question is possible - why not immediately add kefir to the batch and not "bother" with fermentation?
  • Answer: kefir (and other acid, apple, vinegar) will not give such a taste to the finished bread as fermented dough on kefir, and even more so on rye flour, which are very good friends, and actively produce lactic acid bacteria during fermentation.
  • This is not my first visit to bread on "sour dough".
  • Here is a variant of "Rye-Wheat Bread with Daily Sourdough" https://Mcooker-enn.icdself.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=68155.0, the recipe was worked out almost completely, the bread was baked several times - the result is good. In this variant, the sour smell and taste of bread, specific to the leaven, is very well traced.
  • So, let's go - I'll tell you further ...


Wheat-rye bread on sour dough.

First we do sour dough (leaven)
First day
Wheat flour - 50 grams
Rye flour - 150 grams
Old kefir - 150 ml
Warm water 40-50 * - 100 ml
salt - 1 \ 3 tsp.
sugar - 1 \ 2 tbsp. l
yeast - 1 \ 2 tsp

The second day is 12 hours later.
Basic dough.
Sour dough - 220 grams (I used only half of the sourdough in the dough) or 50% by weight of flour
Wheat flour - 400 grams
Vegetable oil - 1 tbsp. l
Salt - 1 tsp
Sugar - 1/2 tbsp. l
Yeast - 0.8-1 tsp
Warm water 40-50 * С - 150 ml - control the bun, the dough should be soft !!!

First we make sour dough (sourdough) - the first day.

We knead a thin dough (soft) with a chatterbox, leave to acidify for 8-12 hours on the table at room temperature, covering with a towel.

The sourdough can be made with wheat flour. Rye flour speeds up the acidification process and gives the bread a more pleasant smell and taste.

The choice of flour is determined by the method of baking bread in the future - purely wheat, wheat-rye, rye.

It is possible to make all the additives in the dough at the fermentation stage, such as oatmeal, barley flour (flakes), buckwheat, millet flour, and other types of flour, so that they are well fermented with acid - kefir.

This is what sour dough will look like after 12 hours of fermentation.

Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)

Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)

Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)

Inside, the dough is springy, with a sour smell and taste inherent in rye dough.
The second day is 12 hours later.

I separated part of the dough 200 grams, put it in the refrigerator for storage.

Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)

Now we put all the ingredients according to the recipe in the x \ n bucket, turn on the Dough mode - but use only the KIND function!

I put the finished dough on the table sprinkled with flour (just lightly dust it).

Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)

Since the dough is already well kneaded, I slightly give it the shape of a bun and put the dough in the bowl for the first proving. Lightly powder the bowl with flour.

Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)

I cover the bowl with a towel so that the dough does not dry out, but breathes. If the dough is steeper, you can cover the bowl with a damp towel.

The dough is proofed in the oven at a temperature of 30 * C.

Please note that below under the bowl there is a yellow square ceramic hob (an attachment to the old microwave oven for baking pizza) - in the future, when the oven is heated for baking, the stove will also heat up to the set temperature, which will have a positive effect.

Be careful, don't go far - the dough rises quickly !!!!
This is how the dough looks after 30 minutes of first proofing !!!!

Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)

We do the dough again - the second.
Put the dough on the table sprinkled with flour, with one hand turn the dough ball over and over again, and with the other hand bend the edges from the edges inward to the middle.

Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)

This kneading releases the flour gluten and prevents air voids from forming in the dough. It turns out a round loaf with a smooth top and folded bottom.

Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)

From the dough I shape a bun and put it on a proofer on a thin baking sheet covered with a non-stick mat.
We put the dough for proofing.
If we put it in a basket for proofing, then the folded side will be at the top.

Cover the dough with a towel and put it in the oven for proofing at 30-35 * C until the increase is 2-2.5 times.

Be careful, don't go far - the dough rises quickly !!!!
This is what the dough looks like after 30 minutes second proofing !!!!

Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)

Seeing the rapid rise of the dough, I took it out of the oven after 15 minutes and turned on the oven to heat up. The oven warmed up to 220 * C in 12-15 minutes.
Together with the oven, the ceramic plate also warmed up to the set temperature.
I put the dough in the oven for baking bread.
Subtlety: during the opening of the oven door, and the cold baking sheet and dough - the oven loses about 10-15 * C of heat. Here, these losses are compensated by a heated ceramic plate, the dough does not fall on the cold oven rack, but powerful heating from the bottom of the baking sheet.
This is how the dough “explodes” in the first 7-10 minutes of baking. Even torn from one side!

Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)

After 15 minutes, the temperature is reduced to 180 * C, the bread is baked on the residual heat in the oven.
After another 10-15 minutes, I check the temperature inside the bread with a thermoprobe, and reduce it to 160 * C until it is completely baked. It takes about 10 minutes.

The bread is ready !!! Let's boast about the beautiful side !!!

Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)

I grease my bread with olive oil - let's go to rest !!! Until it cools completely !!!!

Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)

Now we cut and taste!

Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)

My opinion.
The crust is thin and crispy. Crumbles are normal. The taste is great!

I think I will often make such bread !!!
There is not so much trouble, but the bread is wonderful!

Bon appetit to everyone !!!

This topic should be considered as Master Class, "for those who want, but are afraid"!

Sour Dough Bread Option
Thank you Admin for the new idea!
Probably, you can use purchased ayran, tan, or koumiss instead of old kefir?
Quote: Margit

Probably, you can use purchased ayran, tan, or koumiss instead of old kefir?

Perhaps you can. According to my observations, for sour dough it is better to take strong sour drinks, for example, like old aged kefir. The whey raises the dough well.

Good luck!
Admin, please forgive me for the amateurishness, but whey can be used instead of kefir in sour dough (sourdough) or in the main dough? Thank you for such a simple recipe for wheat-rye bread, I really want to bake it.
Admin, a couple more questions:
1. How much should kefir be to be considered "old" and under what conditions should it be kept for this time?
2. Is it better to bake bread with "fresh" sour dough, that is, after 12 hours of fermentation, or the "older" the leaven, the tastier the bread?
3. Do you have white bread in your photos, is that how it should be?
Quote: AUV

Admin, please forgive me for the amateurishness, but whey can be used instead of kefir in sour dough (sourdough) or in the main dough?

Whey acidifies rye flour well, and the main dough will go - try

I wrote in detail about aged sour foods in the topic Using aged cottage cheese in bread dough https://Mcooker-enn.icdself.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=45260.0
Today I had regular kefir, stood in the refrigerator for about 5 days.

While I was baking with fresh sour dough, in a few days I will expose the bread recipe on the "old" sour dough and show what happens. By all indicators, it should work out.

White (gray) bread. The color depends on the amount of this or that flour in the dough. I had little rye sour dough, only 200 grams, including 75 grams of rye flour.
In this case, rye flour worked as a fermentation enhancer.
If you add a lot of rye sour dough and a little wheat flour, you get a different color and taste of the bread.

Good luck! Bake - the bread is delicious!
This is what sour old dough looks like today - shelf life 6 days. Located in the refrigerator.

As you can see from the photo, it feels the old sour dough perfectly, bubbles, the smell is leavening, sour - but does not over-acid, does not deteriorate.
Such an old sour dough can easily replace sourdoughs in winter and summer.

Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)

Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)
On such a leaven / old sour dough, you can put a dough and then the dough and bake bread.
Well, finally, my version of bread on sour dough! baked in a gas oven in a cast-iron pan. I just heated the pan on the stove for about five minutes, put the dough on it in paper and put it in the oven!
Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)
I will cut it tomorrow, the dough stood in the refrigerator for 7 days!

It is interesting to know the opinion about bread
The dough was allowed to stand in the microwave with a glass of water and a light bulb on, it rose very much! I was even surprised, as the dough from the refrigerator barely warmed up to room temperature and kneaded.
Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)
the crumb turned out to be fabulous in HP, this does not work.
This is the second bread from the second half of the dough, I really liked the first one in KhP, and I made this one on unfamiliar wheat flour, taken for a sample, the phrase "baking" was not on the pack, as a result, the taste was completely different, it seemed to me with excessive sourness and taste of the pie, and not bread: pardon: apparently flour is different from flour!

Lvovsky, beautiful bread turned out

And it's not even about flour, it's just that bread from the oven tastes completely different!
And the sourness is obtained from sour dough, you baked bread practically on sourdough, therefore the crumb is so airy and in a hole

I think you will like the taste of bread
Thank you, we will try!
By the way, I've seen enough videos here on the forum of how Americans (probably) bake bread, how they get it so fluffy and crispy? just amazing, is it some other flour or additives?
Admin, thank you so much for such a wonderful recipe ... I really liked the cooking process

baked in a cauldron tomorrow we will try

Another piece of bread in the oven on an OLD, Sour dough!

The shelf life of the old dough in the refrigerator is 7 days! Bread has a sourdough taste of bread

Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)

I really like this bread! And the dough behaves great when kneading, proving and baking!

New vitamin
Admin! And if you entrust the kneading and baking of bread to a bread maker, do you think it will work out? There is a catastrophic lack of time, but you want tasty bread
Put the sour dough in the morning. and in the evening, when you come home from work, load into a bread maker and trust her?

You can try everything! But the sour dough is sour because it must also ripen, this will give the crumb structure, and most importantly, the taste of bread
Try your own version, it's always interesting to know what happens
The leaven is worth it, I will come home from work and try to bake. The question may not be in this thread. I don’t have a ceramic stove, but I think that just a baking sheet heated with the oven is also suitable for baking on the hearth? And yet, everyone writes about the proofing baskets. Again, due to the lack of it, you can put it in ... a cup? Or I want to try to distance in a plastic cracker. She was beautiful, with carved edges, oval. Almost like rattan. Or proofing in specials. device gives something unusual?
Irina, any proofing method will do, in any dish. The main thing is the correct proofing so that the dough does not float.
And instead of a stone, a frying pan with a thick bottom, for example for pancakes, is suitable.
Eh, all the pans I have with handles. All the same, heat the baking sheet?
Quote: iris. ka

Eh, all the pans I have with handles. All the same, heat the baking sheet?

The baking sheet will not give anything, it is better to stand on it. You can heat a deep saucepan with a thick bottom, cast iron, large-sized ceramics and then put bread there on film or baking paper, it should turn out
Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)
Sorry, I will insert photos randomly. Very dreary from the tablet. So it was bread
After the first proofing
Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)
Second proofing
Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)
Admin, is this my town in the oven under?

Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)
Ira, the dough and bread were very good at such a town! Now the whole technology is clear, you will go further bolder

WELL DONE! Does it taste like bread?
Plastered in a plastic cracker. I don’t know if the pattern on it is not clearly convex or there is something wrong with the dough, but the dough after turning over was ordinary, without a pattern. I smeared the finished bread with some water for softness. The crust is moist, the upper crust is soft and the lower crust is crunchy. The daughters ate half a roll of cheese and garlic. Tomorrow or not, in a few days (to understand the difference in taste) I will bake again. The aroma during baking is very thick, sour, tasty.

The crumb may be moist from the fact that the bread is not baked. You can see it in the photo, I just didn’t speak, I wrote it off for the first bread.
Therefore, I recommend purchasing a temperature probe, it gives 100% control over baking and bread readiness. When the temperature on the display reaches 94-96 * C, the crumb is ready and baked, you can safely remove it from the oven
Exactly. I also thought about "not baked". And immediately a temperature probe popped up in my head. Eh, boom look.
But again, there is another way to determine readiness. Our grandmothers did not have a probe. Everything comes from experience.

A spoke doesn't always help! Much depends on the type of flour, or our feelings of readiness, and they are often wrong - I know this from myself.
Therefore, only the temperature probe - it does not make mistakes
So I decided to experiment !!!! I baked such a piece of bread in my Shtebochka !!! I did it with a bang! In it, I made detuning, on Heating, 30 gr. 2 times 30 min. and immediately the stove was on Frying for 25 minutes, the top with the Airfryer turned brown. Well, very tasty. Cut straight hot, there was no strength to wait for a complete cooling! Reminded the bread of the old, old days when bread was real !!! I sincerely thank Admin-Tatiana for the wonderful recipes.

Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)
Wheat-rye bread on sour (old) dough (oven)


Luda, to your health! Beautiful bread
Admin-Tanya, the bread turned out to be just a "song"! It turned out in the process of removing your milk sourdough, you had to feed it, and there was not enough space in a liter jar, so I used 150 ml instead of kefir. sourdough. And I fed the leaven and baked some wonderful bread.Thank you very much for your work, for your patience that knows no boundaries, for sharing your experience and teaching us how to bake delicious and correct bread. When baking, there was a painfully familiar smell of bread from a distant childhood, when my mother baked huge loaves of fragrant homemade bread ... Unfortunately, I cannot insert a photo, but the bread is simply beautiful. Thank you very much!

Valyusha, to your health! Thanks for the kind words!

How to insert a photo, see here, at the end of the first post of the topic CONTENTS OF THE SECTION "BASICS OF KNEADING AND BAKING"
Tatyana put the sourdough, but I did not get a liquid consistency (Knead a thin dough (soft) chatterbox, leave it to sour for 8-12 hours on the table at room temperature, covering with a towel.), Add water or kefir to the desired consistency?, I took the old homemade sour milk, it is thicker than store kefir

But, after all, no one canceled the rule "flour-liquid balance" If the dough is thick, then add a little liquid to the desired consistency.

And homemade sour milk and purchased kefir can be made a little thinner by adding a little water to them, and stir well.
I did so, but I doubted a little. Thank you

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