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Rye custard bread is real (almost forgotten taste). Baking methods and additives (page 24)

Olanwo
Hello! Finally, my hands reached the forum and the kindly suggested recipe!
Due to the fact that there was no flour at home, except for whole grain, we finally baked it.
Here he is, handsome.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/ga...isplayimage.php?pos=-2338
🔗
With the light hand of Vanya28, the recipe was reworked to use yeast instead of sourdough.

Total recipe 60/40 whole wheat flour
Whole grain rye flour - 260 gr
Whole grain wheat flour - 180 gr
Salt - 10 gr
Vegetable oil - 15 ml
Red malt - 30 gr
Agram dark - 10 gr
Dry yeast - 8-12 gr
Water - 295 ml (g) + 100 ml (g) boiling water for brewing malt.
Correction of water in the recipe for local flour + - 30 ml.
More details: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...tion=com_smf&topic=9345.0
It was baked according to the principle of "almost forgotten rye taste" - kneading, standing, baking - everything, as in the original recipe, both in time and in actions. The only thing I added to this recipe is 1.5 tbsp. l. Sahara.
As for the taste - it seemed to me that the sugar was not enough, somehow sour ("that same forgotten taste" is somehow more interesting).
Vanya28, can you tell me how to make the bread look more like "that one", maybe add more sugar? or rye flour in a ratio of, for example, 80/20? What do you think is worth tweaking at all?
Thank you!
Olanwo
Quote: neroli

Please tell the young baker. So far, I'm afraid to experiment, I do everything according to the recipe. But there is no light agram, only dark. I read that it is needed less. And how much less, half, one third?
Can I answer you? I really want to demonstrate myself as an experienced baker
I, too, only strictly according to the recipe for now. But this bread (rye almost forgotten taste, the recipe for which is on the 1st page) we bake constantly, and also strictly according to the recipe. And it contains either 35 ml of light agram, or 10 ml of dark. I also only have dark agram, strictly 10 ml - and everything is ok. Accordingly, its proportions to light - 10 to 35, respectively, if in the recipe "x" light agram, then dark agram should be taken "x / 3.5". Let the professionals correct me, if not right
neroli
Quote: Olanwo

Can I answer you? I really want to demonstrate myself as an experienced baker
I, too, only strictly according to the recipe for now. But this bread (rye almost forgotten taste, the recipe for which is on the 1st page) we bake constantly, and also strictly according to the recipe. And it contains either 35 ml of light agram, or 10 ml of dark. I also only have dark agram, strictly 10 ml - and everything is ok. Accordingly, its proportions to light - 10 to 35, respectively, if in the recipe "x" light agram, then dark agram should be taken "x / 3.5". Let the professionals correct me, if not right
Thank you very much! How could I, a muddler, read so inattentively? And all this time I'm waiting for at least someone to answer :) Thank you, kind person!
Olanwo
So glad!!!! !
Nikasa
Tell me, what is the weight of a loaf according to the recipe from the first post?
Now I want to try this bread, but in my oven (mulinex ow 1101) bread is up to 900 grams, and in recipes there are more than 450 grams. flour and 270 ml of water not used ... Convert to less? Or will the bread not rise much?
Olanwo
I have 912 grams of bread. (together with a spatula) from 500 grams of flour (just baked, not yet taken out)
Nikasa
Olanwo, Thank you.
I have already taken a chance, put the bread. I'll see what happens. I hope it doesn't come out of the bucket))
Olanwo
I just wanted to correct my message and write that my bread does not increase much, as the author writes - you need to double it - and this, as a rule, is not much
Maruska
: girl_sad: Help me figure out the program for Kenwood 450. for Borodino bread.
what time is it for what?

Do I understand correctly that there is only one sediment - 60min?
and baking for 1 hour 30 minutes?
- here is YOUR kenwood mode: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...=9345.0

And explain to me why, depending on the bread machine, there may be two proofing - which will increase the total proofing time by 2 or even more times ???
And baking time from 60 minutes to 120 how do you write about my kenwood?
Olanwo
Quote: Maruska

: girl_sad: Help me figure out the program for Kenwood 450. for Borodino bread.
what time is it for what?

Do I understand correctly that there is only one sediment - 60min?
and baking for 1 hour 30 minutes?
- here is YOUR kenwood mode: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...=9345.0

And explain to me why, depending on the bread machine, there may be two proofing - which will increase the total proofing time by 2 or even more times ???
And baking time from 60 minutes to 120 how do you write about my kenwood?
Please forgive me, Maruska, for getting in, being not much more experienced than you (or maybe even less), but Vanya has been gone for a long time (I really want to think about good things and hope that he is on vacation)
Maybe let's try to figure it out together?
As far as I understand, the different times in the proofing depend on whether the bread is baked with sourdough or yeast. On the latter, as a rule, faster (just about 1 hour), and on sourdough - more (Quote: "For baking with sourdough, increase the rising time of the dough by 1 - 3 hours."). Thus, in theory, in any bread maker, when baking rye YEAST bread, it is kneaded (who has how much), it stands for about 1 hour (until it doubles), and baked for 1 hour 30 minutes. In theory, this should be the case for everyone.
What do you think?
Maruska
Quote: Olanwo

Please forgive me, Maruska, for getting in, being not much more experienced than you (or maybe even less), but Vanya has been gone for a long time (I really want to think about good things and hope that he is on vacation)
Maybe let's try to figure it out together?
As far as I understand, the different times in the proofing depend on whether the bread is baked with sourdough or yeast. On the latter, as a rule, faster (just about 1 hour), and on sourdough - more (Quote: "For baking with sourdough, increase the rising time of the dough by 1 - 3 hours."). Thus, in theory, in any bread maker, when baking rye YEAST bread, it is kneaded (who has how much), it stands for about 1 hour (until it doubles), and baked for 1 hour 30 minutes. In theory, this should be the case for everyone.
What do you think?
I don’t know yet! Now I'll try to cook it - I'll write it tomorrow!
Olanwo
Good luck!
Do not forget how the programs were exposed - which ones, for how much, so that later you know exactly how they prepared
Nikasa
I have a great bread. I first put on the "Dough" program (her kneading was 20 minutes, and 1 hour 10 minutes rise), then the "Baking" program for 1 hour and then immediately for another 30 minutes. Mode with a medium crust. But I think next. just put the crust light. It seems to me that in any oven there are "dough" and "baking" programs, so this order of programs is universal.
Agram added dark, 8 gr. In general, I measured everything in grams, not ml.
Maruska
Rye custard bread is real (almost forgotten taste). Baking methods and additives
Yesterday I baked the first black bread.
DELICIOUS!
The only thing when baking is a little bit of opal in the middle - but I can't even call this a drawback, since this is not visible on the cut pieces.
- I didn't have dark honey, I put it in medium dark.
-On the pack with agram it is not written at all whether it is dark or not. It's just written agram.
-The crumb is wonderfully baked, very even holes - just a feast for the eyes.

-The only thing that I would like to change - the crust is tough, I had to cut off the side edge, Is everyone doing this? PLEASE note that I wrapped it in a towel for 2 hours. Can this be changed ???
amasonka21
and where to get the leaven from us in Ukraine ?? I really want simple rye bread without any additives (malt, etc.), I can't stand them
Nikasa
Quote: Maruska

-The only thing that I would like to change - the crust is tough, I had to cut off the side edge, Is everyone doing this? PLEASE note that I wrapped it in a towel for 2 hours. Can this be changed ???
I also got a hard crust for the first time, but today I set the light crust mode, and it turned out very well, the crust is thin and not hard.
Olanwo
Quote: Maruska

Rye custard bread is real (almost forgotten taste). Baking methods and additives
Yesterday I baked the first black bread.
DELICIOUS!

-The only thing that I would like to change - the crust is tough, I had to cut off the side edge, Is everyone doing this? PLEASE note that I wrapped it in a towel for 2 hours. Can this be changed ???

Great! What a good bread! I'm sure it's delicious!
I have never seen a light agram in reality, but I saw it in an online store, it is really light, and a dark agram is like ash, so it can be determined by its color.
And our roof fell off so little too - Vanya28 said that either to reduce the water, or to reduce the amount of yeast, or to shorten the lifting time. Reduced the water and it turned out very nice.
Here, look, on this page is my bread at the very bottom:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=9345.880
The author's comments follow.
Is the crust still tough today? otherwise it’s usually hard only on the first day, on the second, it’s softer, I’m even sorry, I love the crust (I store it without a bag in the bread bin)
Valeria 12
But my rye custard in apple cider vinegar instead of agram. The crust is dark, so a bit dark, next time I'll try a light one. But the taste is something !!!!!!!!! AND THE DOME DID NOT FELL.
ALL EATERS IN ADMIRATION
🔗 🔗Fast photo on the phone, litter
Olanwo
Quote: Nikasa

I have a great bread. I first put on the "Dough" program (her kneading was 20 minutes, and 1 hour 10 minutes rise), then the "Baking" program for 1 hour and then immediately for another 30 minutes. Mode with a medium crust. But I think next. just put the crust light. It seems to me that in any oven there are "dough" and "baking" programs, so this order of programs is universal.
Agram added dark, 8 gr. In general, I measured everything in grams, not ml.
Congratulations!
And I get 25 minutes of kneading and 40 minutes. lifting, if more - will stop.
And the scales, unfortunately, are not so accurate, albeit electronic, so when you need a little - that in ml, and large masses - for the scales.
Maruska
Quote: Olanwo


Is the crust still tough today? otherwise it’s usually hard only on the first day, on the second, it’s softer, I’m even sorry, I love the crust (I store it without a bag in the bread bin)
Yes, the crust is the one on the side (the first piece) - I had to cut it off. She remained harsh. For example, in white bread - it turns out soft.
At the expense of water, I immediately reduced it, so maybe during baking, I opened a window in the next room, could this affect?

And I also want to ask - is it possible to make the bread darker in color, it is dark brown for me, and I brought bread from the trip - so it is almost black (the color of bitter dark chocolate), and the structure itself seems to be more "wet". I wonder how it's done ??
Olanwo
Quote: Maruska


Yes, the crust is the one on the side (the first piece) - I had to cut it off. She remained harsh. For example, in white bread - it turns out soft.
At the expense of water, I immediately reduced it, so maybe during baking, I opened a window in the next room, could this affect?

And I also want to ask - is it possible to make the bread darker in color, it is dark brown for me, and I brought bread from the trip - so it is almost black (the color of bitter dark chocolate), and the structure itself seems to be more "wet". I wonder how it's done ??
Here, probably, you need to wait for professionals, because my skills are no longer enough
As for the color, I only get dark brown. Maybe just brown, depending on the color of the malt. But I don’t know how to do it with black. Maybe more of this malt?
And the window in the next room, in my opinion, could not influence. Still, in the next one, there is not such a draft.
In general, she answered out of respect for the conversation, but not quite on the merits
Yulia Ivanova
Hello. a beginner's question on rye bread, where to get malt and sourdough? Where can they be sold at all, in some specialized stores?
Admin
Quote: Yulia Ivanova

Hello. a beginner's question on rye bread, where to get malt and sourdough? Where can they be sold at all, in some specialized stores?

Enter your place of residence in your profile, and then ask a question in the section Communication with fellow countrymen https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&board=39.0, they will prompt

Today it is not a problem to buy any malt, especially rye.
We grow the leaven ourselves https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&board=172.0
Yulia Ivanova
I failed to set 1h 30min at the end. Error U50 turned on. I had to wait, then turn it on for 30 minutes, the bread turned out to be raw inside, put it on for another 30 minutes, I'm waiting for what happens
Yulia Ivanova
the first rye pancake is lumpy. The bread is baked on the outside and raw inside. I put it again under the rye custard program, Panasonic 2502 bread machine
Yulia Ivanova
Quote: Admin

Enter your place of residence in your profile, and then ask a question in the section Communication with fellow countrymen https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&board=39.0, they will prompt

Today it is not a problem to buy any malt, especially rye.
We grow the leaven ourselves https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&board=172.0
Thanks, I already found both malt and sourdough
Valeria 12
Quote: Yulia Ivanova

I failed to set 1h 30min at the end. Error U50 turned on. I had to wait, then turn it on for 30 minutes, the bread turned out to be raw inside, put it on for another 30 minutes, I'm waiting for what happens
I also have the same oven. And for the first time when baking such bread according to the Vanya 28 recipe, it happened like yours. The baking did not start, because you did not catch the moment of resetting the program Basic Fast. In it, the ascent can last less than 60 minutes (depending on the season). Apparently, when program 02 was reset, Baking had already started. Therefore, the oven showed Overheat error U50.
Quote: Yulia Ivanova

I put it again under the rye custard program, Panasonic 2502 bread machine
And in the Rye program, this bread will not work - there is little time for baking.
Olanwo
Quote: Yulia Ivanova

I failed to set 1h 30min at the end. Error U50 turned on. I had to wait, then turn it on for 30 minutes, the bread turned out to be raw inside, put it on for another 30 minutes, I'm waiting for what happens
I also had this, but Vanya28 helped out. There is a temperature sensor in the bread maker. If such an incident happened, you need to take out the bowl of bread, cover it with a towel (so as not to sink), and apply ice to this sensor for 2 minutes, then the bread maker is "deceived" and you can turn it on for baking. Checked!
And just in case, I turn off the standing mode 5 minutes early before the "baking"
levis
Greetings to all !
Recently I joined the owners of bread machines, as a photo of real rye bread with a forgotten taste does not leave my head.
Not bothering much with the choice, I bought a Panasonic 2502 (albeit without programming). Plain white bread for two hours turns out well. But the goal is rye with a forgotten taste.
Questions are more likely to Vanya28 (or who will not be difficult to answer) - in the description of the recipe it is indicated that red malt can be replaced without problems with its liquid extract (as I understand it, like Glof), but with reservations about kvass wort - here I am still an amateur ...
- how much volume in milliliters / measuring spoons from Panas2502 is it necessary to take malt extract instead of 50ml of dry fermented malt and how to adjust the amount of water? By the way, with the available scales SOEHNLE, for the sake of interest, weighed 50 ml of dry malt measured along the cut of a measuring spoon from Panas - these are 3 tablespoons and 1 teaspoon, judging by the instructions for the stove (a canteen 15 ml and a teaspoon 5 ml). But 40 grams didn't work out for me - much less! I checked the scales - accurate. Where did I "get" ?!
I'm sitting waiting from the oven for my first rye with a forgotten taste - I took 50ml of dry malt and not 40g as explained above
The dough when kneaded turned out to be much denser than in the video tutorial on kneading the dough, although the rest of the recipe was followed exactly.
Something tried to wind up in the form of a bun, but only in the middle (and the scapula stood - a comb), but of course I scooped everything out of the corners and broke the "bun" by pushing the pulled out to the middle and down into the scapula to stir well.
Can not wait....

Even if it doesn't work out - MANY THANKS Vanya28 for the recipe and explanations.
Olanwo
Quote: levis

Greetings to all !
Recently I joined the owners of bread machines, as a photo of real rye bread with a forgotten taste does not leave my head.
Not bothering much with the choice, I bought a Panasonic 2502 (albeit without programming). Plain white bread for two hours turns out well. But the goal is rye with a forgotten taste.
Questions are more likely to Vanya28 (or who will not be difficult to answer) - in the description of the recipe it is indicated that red malt can be replaced without problems with its liquid extract (as I understand it, like Glof), but with reservations about kvass wort - here I am still an amateur ...
- how much volume in milliliters / measuring spoons from Panas2502 is it necessary to take malt extract instead of 50ml of dry fermented malt and how to adjust the amount of water? By the way, with the available scales SOEHNLE, for the sake of interest, weighed 50 ml of dry malt measured along the cut of a measuring spoon from Panas - these are 3 tablespoons and 1 teaspoon, judging by the instructions for the stove (a canteen 15 ml and a teaspoon 5 ml). But 40 grams didn't work out for me - much less! I checked the scales - accurate. Where did I "get" ?!
I'm sitting waiting from the oven for my first rye with a forgotten taste - I took 50ml of dry malt and not 40g as explained above
The dough when kneaded turned out to be much denser than in the video tutorial on kneading the dough, although the rest of the recipe was followed exactly.
Something tried to wind up in the form of a bun, but only in the middle (and the scapula stood - a comb), but of course I scooped everything out of the corners and broke the "bun" by pushing the pulled out to the middle and down into the scapula to stir well.
Can not wait....

Even if it doesn't work out - MANY THANKS Vanya28 for the recipe and explanations.
Levis, as far as I understood, the consistency shown in the video about kneading rye bread, as Vanya himself writes28, is the thinnest, that is, it is good when the dough is thicker and cooler.
- Regarding the malt and its weight / volume - it seems to me that it depends on the brand of the malt itself (there are, as I understand it, a lot of them), for example, I somehow got it - rot-rot, he, respectively, in the same volume will weigh less. My opinion, I could be wrong.
- As for malt and its replacement with wort, there is an example of using wort (I am writing an excerpt, see page 6 of this topic): "By the way, when I baked my first rye bread, there was no malt, but there was kvass wort. I put it in the bread instead of malt, but in the same way, I didn't even reduce the water (at that time the stove was a week old, I didn't know all the subtleties). As a result, the bread rose very well and was highly porous. True, the must is sweet, this must be taken into account :)
So if it doesn't work with malt and there is an opportunity to substitute wort, then you can try it, it should definitely work out. "

And here is what Vanya himself writes28 (page 16 of this topic):
Can I use concentrate of malt or wort?
You can, if you are confident in the quality of the product.
A slight difficulty will arise considering the amount of water added by these products to the finished recipe. This amount of water will need to be subtracted from the total amount of water in the recipe.
Newbies unknowingly always forget about this, which makes the finished bread taste raw.
More details: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...tion=com_smf&topic=9345.0
Accordingly, as I understand it, Vanya28 would suggest subtracting from the initial volume of water the amount of ml you add as wort. If you write that the dough turned out to be rather thick, then you can try not to reduce the amount of water and just replace the malt with wort, see what happens. As a last resort, if in the process of helping in the kneading process, you realize that it is liquid (remembering that the maximum liquid is indicated in the video), add 2-3 tablespoons of flour.
Again, I repeat, this is my opinion.
Olanwo
By the way, I also found (seemingly on pages 20 or 21) that the author of the recipe writes about small masses when weighing them (I always refer to Vanya himself28, because I really don't want to appropriate other people's knowledge and skills, so I quote the author as a "classic"):
"The difference in numbers when weighing is just a large error in measuring your scales at small values. That is why we strongly recommend that small weighed portions be made with measuring spoons, which is faster, more accurate and more convenient."
This, as I understand it, is in time for the question of the mass and volume of malt.
levis
Everything is clear with the scales. How to convert dry malt to concentrate is not clear.Different varieties of dry malt - I agree.
The bread turned out to be good, the current roof collapsed a little. I would like to rehearse the recipe with the right roof and concentrate. It is also interesting how apple cider vinegar instead of sourdough. I tried on Extra-R
Olanwo
Probably, recalculate dry malt to concentrate like this: if the recipe contains 50 ml of dry malt, you need to take 50 ml of concentrate with a decrease in the total volume of water by 50 ml. If it's rude. And so, I would reduce the volume of water ml by 35 and see what consistency is obtained during the kneading process.
But, the roof has collapsed most likely if the dough has stopped. Since the main reasons
- too much water
- excess yeast
- stood too long.
With water, you hardly had a surplus if the dough was steep, but, behold, there could be a lot of yeast (if you weighed them with scales, and did not measure them with a measuring spoon). The scales are still not medical (as a rule, they are still household ones), and an error of 10 g is easy, but in terms of yeast, it turns out a lot.
And also, if the dough stood more than before it grew 2 times.
Try to follow. just measure the yeast not with a scale, but with a measuring spoon, and take a look once (opening the lid slightly) if it is growing too much (you need to make flour marks on the side of the bucket at the end of the kneading, noting the level of dough doubling)
Olanwo
Quote: levis

It is also interesting how on apple cider vinegar instead of sourdough. I tried on Extra-R
As a more experienced baker suggested to me:
"2 tablespoons of apple cider vinegar and +18 grams of flour to balance, and also reduce the water to 380ml (if more of the dome falls off)"
I understand that vinegar is used instead of Agram.
levis
Olanwo, thanks for the advice, along with the coming!
The scales are not medical, but they hold 1 g exactly and on them I weigh only flour. Yeast, like the rest of the fine powder - I ALWAYS measure out with a measuring spoon from Panas along the cut. On the same yeast - white bread is obtained exclusively. And who can measure the weight of yeast on a scale with an error of + -10g if yeast itself in 1 measuring teaspoon of grams is 2 and there are spoons and only 2 are needed?!?!?!
Water is measured with a measuring glass from the same Panas. The dough could not stand, as it was necessary to switch from one program to another in the 2502 oven - otherwise it would have already begun to bake. Can I have Agram "old" ...
As for the concentrate, I still think it should be taken 5 times less than dry malt, it's CONCENTRATE. You will have to try with vinegar!
And about serifs with flour - I don't know yet what it is and how :-(
I know one thing - my bread has risen by a factor of 1.5, the width of the loaf is greater than the height.
We can, on the contrary, need more yeast ... the dough is dense, this white one swells well and this is rye dough, when I helped the stove to knead as much as my hand was tired of manipulating with my spatula.
Olanwo
Thank you for your congratulations! And you with the coming!
Do not take my comments as guidance or teaching just to serve the general purpose of baking.
As for "the bread has stopped." The fact is that, perhaps, in your conditions (air temperature, quality of yeast, etc.) the time that the oven spends on kneading and standing (and this, as far as I understand, about an hour), may turn out to be a lot for bread and he will have time to grow more than necessary. Therefore, it is easy for him to climb higher before you need to turn off the program and switch it to baking. Therefore, it is precisely necessary to make these notorious serifs with flour. And this is how: when the stove has finished kneading, you level the surface of the dough (at the same time, the roof will be smoother, without traces of kneading), and taking a pinch of flour, as it were, draw a dash inside the bucket at the level where the dough will increase by 2 times. And then, for example, 10 minutes before the end of standing, slightly and quickly lift the lid to see if the bread is still "outgrown". If suddenly already - then turn off the program and switch to baking.
But this is so, more words than actions And since you write that bread has grown no more than 1.5 times, then this is not the case. Just a note.
And also, by the way, my personal experience.I have the same oven, and if the bread is kneaded and allowed to stand on program "02" - the main fast one, then the roof sinks a little, and if on "09" - gluten-free pastries, then everything is fine. I cannot explain this phenomenon, Vanya28 said in this regard that one should try to reduce the amount of yeast. To be honest, it's easier for me to knead and stand on the "gluten-free" program - it still works, and you don't have to make flour marks - there is as much time to rise in the program as needed. What program do you use to knead?

I almost forgot about the concentrate. My opinion is that you don't need to take it so much less than malt (like 5 times, for example). This is a concentrate of KVASS, not malt. Malt itself is also quite a strong thing (well, that's my opinion). And so, the bread, I think, will still work, even if you take a little malt (well, or kvass concentrate), just if you take it much less than necessary, then the bread will no longer be completely custard and not so dark. By the way, in favor of my reasoning: I don't remember exactly, but it seems to me that for the preparation of 3 liters of kvass you need to take somewhere 8-10 tbsp. l. concentrate, respectively, about 3.5 tbsp. l. (just about 50 ml) per liter. If you take 5 times less, it will be less than 1 tbsp. l., that is, it is tantamount to the fact that you use 1 glass of ready-made kvass in bread, I do not think that this is enough for the rich color and taste of our "that forgotten taste".
But you can share, please, your experience, how you succeed. My opinion is just my opinion, a rather young (in terms of experience) baker.
amasonka21
Happy New Year to everyone! : rose: I've also decided to buy a bread maker and became its owner. I bought ORION-204. Immediately I began to bake bread, almost everything from the book came out without problems. But you want a rye "Darnitsky" or, as we have in the Kherson region - "Dachny", but alas. some components were lacking, just yesterday I received them, and today I tried to bake on the program - "with bran" and now, alas - the roof collapsed, I'm waiting for the baking to end - to see what's inside, but on the advice of bakers I came to the conclusion that it should be baked in 2 stages - first kneading - and then separately - baking. Once again HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone
Admin
Quote: amasonka21

But you want a rye "Darnitsky" or, as we have in the Kherson region - "Dachny", but alas. some components were lacking, just yesterday I received them, and today I tried to bake on the program - "with bran" and now, alas - the roof collapsed, I'm waiting for the baking to end - to see what's inside, but on the advice of bakers I came to the conclusion that it should be baked in 2 stages - first kneading - and then separately - baking. Once again HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone

Darnitsa bread we have here Darnitsa bread (Author fugaska) (bread maker) https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=596.0.html

According to this recipe, Darnitsa bread is wheat-rye bread, so dances with tambourines are not needed and you can bake it on the main program (without a combination of programs).

The roof falls if the flour / liquid balance is out of balance in the dough and more water is added than is required for the dough. Or more yeast added.
To deal with the intricacies of kneading and baking bread, we go to the topic Bread again did not work, I did everything strictly according to the recipe. What can be wrong? https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=146942.0 and learn, learn, learn ... first of all, make bread dough
Valeria 12
Quote: Olanwo

I have the same oven, and if the bread is kneaded and allowed to stand on program "02" - the main fast one, then the roof sinks a little, and if on "09" - gluten-free pastries, then everything is fine. To be honest, it's easier for me to knead and stand on the "gluten-free" program - it still works, and you don't have to make flour marks - there is as much time to rise in the program as needed.
On my program 02, too, the roof sinks - I get out only by decreasing the liquid, then everything is OK. I have not tried program 09.Olanwo , it's an idea to try at 09, and you baked at 09 without adjusting the recipe Vanya28.
amasonka21
Thanks for the advice, but I found the recipe for Darnitsa bread there, but it can be seen that I only have a little bit of yeast and too much water. yes, and the sourdoughs will need to be reduced, otherwise it turned out sour for me, I will continue to work with rye bread, I thought to add malt, but I didn't want to, because I don't like Borodino because of this smell. because there are no comrades for the taste and color, everyone likes something of their own But the bread turned out to be delicious
Admin

Valentine, you are missing one essential point:
- Darnitsky bread is wheat-rye bread
- bread in this thread according to the recipe - whole rye bread

Hence, the principles of kneading and proofing and the program mode in the x / oven will be different! Therefore, from here, your bread may have a failed lid and other problems - this must be taken into account, otherwise you will be looking for reasons for a long time
amasonka21
Thank you
Olanwo
Quote: Valeria 12

On my program 02, too, the roof sinks - I get out only by decreasing the liquid, then everything is OK. I have not tried program 09.Olanwo , it's an idea to try at 09, and you baked at 09 without adjusting the recipe Vanya28.
Yes, I do kneading-holding on program 09. Honestly, I started doing it by accident - I did not notice that mode 02 was recommended for my HP Panasonic 2502; and for some other Panasonic is recommended 09, I started it. And when I saw my mistake, I corrected it, I got a slightly sagging roof. The result - without changing the recipe, gram per gram I bake at 09 and "Pastry" - everything is fine!
I would be glad if my experience of "inattentive" reading is useful to you
Byalorus
Hello everyone, tell me a proven recipe for rye bread for Electrolux 8000
bibizjama
Good day! I did not find a Venga BBA 1 bread machine on the forum, there is a paper instruction, but not in my native language, I found a PDF on the Internet
🔗
translated using GoogleTranslate.
Now the question is how to bake rye (black) bread, there is no such program (all foreigners eat wheat bread)
We tried with the main programs - everything is just fine, but with rye bread troubles, I tried in program number 5 - WHOLE-WHEAT BREAD (whole grain bread) - nothing happened, they threw everything out, the dough was mixed badly, the bread did not rise, everything inside was unbaked ...
Help with the adaptation of the oven for rye bread
Efremova
Doing 25 approach to this recipe, decided to join the topic.

First, I want to thank the author of the recipe and everyone who helps beginners and shares their secrets. Thank you so much, you inspire hope for success even in culinary mediocrities like me.

Now about bread. I made it clearly according to the recipe, but the same jambs came out from time to time. Bread Maker Panasonic 2502.
1. Bread did not rise well. Well, the loaf was obtained in volume almost like raw dough in a bucket.
But here, I suppose, my arrogance played a role, I use SAF yeast and it never occurred to me to sin on them, since the milk bread from the Panasonic book turns out to be perfect.
Today I suddenly discovered that I have not just a SAF, but some SAF-levure, which needs to be diluted in warm water. I believe that there are few people like me on the forum, however, maybe someone will need this information.
Yes, on the activated PAF-levure, the dough rose exactly to my mark in an hour.
2. Leakage at the bottom of the loaf. Moreover, at the bottom there were such ... nodules, or something, very hard, as if the crust was solid.
3. A similar phenomenon, like here Rye custard bread is real (almost forgotten taste). Baking methods and additives

Rye custard bread is real (almost forgotten taste). Baking methods and additives
Thicker than in the video master class, but obviously thinner than in previous times. I will wait for the result.

Now the questions that suddenly arose:
1. In the recipe, in the explanations to Panasonic, the kneading time is indicated - 15 minutes. My Panas on the program Basic fast interferes 24 minutes - is this normal? Or turn off the program after 15 minutes? Or let it interfere?

2. The photo shows that the surface of the dough is not smooth - smooth it out? It sticks. Wet hand? Or not touch?

3. The stupidest question is about the correspondence between grams and milliliters. I scrupulously weighed everything on jewelry scales (not kitchen scales, but those ... with 0.1 grams that go), I thought about the result ...
Dry malt 50 ml = 40 g (I had 35 g in 50 ml)
Starter culture 35 ml = 24 g (I have 20 g)
Sugar 50 ml = 50 g (I have 40 g)
Fine salt 10 ml = 15 g (I have 10 g)
Dry yeast 10 ml = 8 g (7 g came out)
Well, with flour it seems clear, it is in grams in the recipe.
Actually, the question is - what to focus on? By grams (let it be more in milliliters) or milliliters? I honestly focused on milliliters, because in grams, some gigantic amounts of salt and other things are obtained. How is it correct?
Olanwo
Quote: Efremova


Now the questions that suddenly arose:
1. In the recipe, in the explanations to Panasonic, the kneading time is indicated - 15 minutes. My Panas on the program Basic fast interferes 24 minutes - is this normal? Or turn off the program after 15 minutes? Or let it interfere?

2. The photo shows that the surface of the dough is not smooth - smooth it out? It sticks. Wet hand? Or not touch?

3. The stupidest question is about the correspondence between grams and milliliters. I scrupulously weighed everything on jewelry scales (not kitchen scales, but those ... with 0.1 grams that go), I thought about the result ...
Dry malt 50 ml = 40 g (I had 35 g in 50 ml)
Starter culture 35 ml = 24 g (I have 20 g)
Sugar 50 ml = 50 g (I have 40 g)
Fine salt 10 ml = 15 g (I have 10 g)
Dry yeast 10 ml = 8 g (7 g came out)
Well, with flour it seems clear, it is in grams in the recipe.
Actually, the question is - what to focus on? By grams (let it be more in milliliters) or milliliters? I honestly focused on milliliters, because in grams, some gigantic amounts of salt and other things are obtained. How is it correct?
Hello!
1. Regarding kneading, I can say from my own experience (I have the same HP) that I also have about 25 minutes kneading, it seems to me that this is only good - the dough is very well displaced during this time, you have time to remember that he needs help shovel
2. To smooth it or not is your business, at first I did not smooth it, but sometimes the bread turns out to be of a very peculiar shape, if you smooth it with a wet hand (as soon as the kneading is over), the top turns out to be smooth and beautiful. Of course, it does not affect the taste.
3. And about ml and grams - my grams also differ from those given, so I use ml and everything works out very well. Therefore, my advice is to focus on ml where the doses are very small (less than 50 g)
Efremova
Quote: Olanwo

focus on ml where doses are very small (less than 50 g)
Oh, that means I'm not completely lost to society as a baker. Because if you take in grams, then somehow a lot of things turn out.
Quote: Olanwo

- the dough takes out very well during this time,
It seems to me that after 15 minutes of kneading, the dough begins to lighten a little, or something. I don’t understand if it’s my mirages, or it really brightens.

OlanwoThank you very much for noticing my nagging

Here's what happened this time:
Rye custard bread is real (almost forgotten taste). Baking methods and additives

Rye custard bread is real (almost forgotten taste). Baking methods and additives
For the 26th time, the bread turned out to be even, without sagging below and without bumps on the roof. But a little embarrassing enough hard and some kind of glossy, or something, the crust on the sides and at the bottom. The roof is softer and uneven. Is it because of Teflon, or what?
Olanwo
I would not say "this is what happened", but "look what a wonderful bread"! It seems to me quite successful. you haven't leveled it yet.
And my edges are exactly the same glossy, it seems to me that it is even beautiful. And what is harsh - honestly, I don’t know why, maybe because the bread is baked for a rather long time, but it will not be baked in less time, therefore, I think, the peculiarity of the recipe, after all, is pure rye bread. And I agree with you, I never wondered why so, but you, I think, are right that this is from Teflon.
And my roof is smoother if I bake it with whole grain flour.
Can you post a picture in a section?

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