J. Hamelman's liquid wheat sourdough

[First day: start breeding]

J. Hamelman's liquid wheat sourdough

Category: Sourdough bread

Ingredients
First day: start breeding
whole grain rye flour	140g (1 glass)
water	175gr (2/3 cup)
honey	5gr (0.5h. L.)
second day: two dressings with an interval of 12 hours
previous leaven	106gr (one third of the total)
whole grain rye flour	50g (1/3 cup)
Wheat flour	50g (1/3 cup)
water (32 degrees)	125g (1/2 cup)
third, fourth, fifth day (two feedings at intervals of 12 hours):
previous leaven	106gr (one third of the total)
Wheat flour	100g (2/5 cup)
water (32 degrees)	125g (1/2 cup)

Cooking method

• 1 day: Mix the ingredients, cover with foil and leave to ripen for 24 hours at a temperature of 24-27 degrees (I set 26-27 degrees).
• 2nd day: Mix the ingredients well, cover with foil and leave to ripen for 12 hours at a temperature of 24-27 degrees (I set 26-27 degrees)... Repeat everything after 12 hours.
• 3,4,5 days and beyond: Mix the ingredients well, cover with foil and leave to ripen for 12 hours at a temperature of 24-27 degrees (I set 26-27 degrees)... Repeat everything after 12 hours, i.e. twice a day. On the sixth day, your sourdough should be ready to participate in the bread baking.
• 
• Important: on the fifth or sixth day, I switch to feeding in equal parts sourdough / flour / water: 106/106/106. It is possible and 100/100/100, not critical. Hamelman has a ferment of 125% hydration, that is, water is 125% of the weight of the flour in the ferment. It’s just uncomfortable for me to count the starter culture of such hydration for my recipes. Therefore, I switch to a sourdough of 100% hydration, that is, where there is the same amount of water as flour, that is, exactly in half. Therefore, if I drunk somewhere, for example, 250 g of my sourdough, then without complicated calculations, but simply dividing it in half, I know that I have already added 125 g of wheat flour and 125 g of water to the recipe and they must be subtracted from the recipe. I do not think that this is a terrible crime against Hamelman's leaven, especially since in the book he himself transforms this liquid into a thick one (even thicker than mine - 60% hydration) simply by changing the amount of water added. That is, from his point of view, this is not a problem.
• Further, like an old grated starter,))) I will give a little information to understand the process and why I have now chosen this one from Hamelman.
• • I have grown a lot of starters. Different and different. All leavens are good. Hamelman's sourdough seemed to me very pleasant because everything is the same when grown in all stages. Do not be confused with quantities, temperatures and what day of cultivation is today (third? Fifth?). Actions are repeated in exactly the same way according to the same algorithm. Only the first day is different. Working temperature - from 24 degrees. I always have so much in the kitchen (the thermometer hangs). But, however, I set the initial (when growing) on ​​the upper bar 26-27, so that the process goes violently). I advise you to look for where it is warmer. Temperature is important !! Well, and yes - the magical, magical influence of the name of the great master-author of the leaven did not pass me by)))
• • A million of all kinds of additives can be used to start crops: honey, bran, pea flour, malt, etc. But in fact, just normal flour and water are enough. The final station for all starter cultures is the same, although the microbiological "bouquet" is, of course, different and gives its own, unique flavors / aromas that non-specialists usually hardly distinguish))). The rest is simply to improve the crops' starting conditions so that they are "tasty".
• • Water is important to remove starter cultures !! I fought with them for two years on filtered water and practically nothing happened. Only one thing united all the unsuccessful attempts - water. I sin on her. Threw up the idea - probably there was a cartridge with silver))). Now I grow on a regular tap, which I let stand in an open container (so that chlorine evaporates, which inhibits any microorganisms). And everything is normal with leaven.
• • The growth of the sourdough literally right after its establishment on rye flour do not deceive you. It's not that)). This is the growth of putrefactive and mucus-forming bacteria. Hence the unpleasant smell of the mass. This always happens in the early stages. Then they will die out from a shift in acidity and give way to DC (wild yeast) and LAB (lactic acid bacteria).
• • Even the leaven, which in the next life will be wheat, often begins with rye flour. It is just that the content of rye flour (especially whole flour) is usually higher and it contains easily fermentable sugars that are "tasty" for microorganisms, that is, a good start. And then let's switch to wheat flour.
• • Yes, it practically does not grow until 4-5 days. Almost all sourdoughs behaved this way (I grew a lot of them, in fact, one Calvel sourdough 10 times, no less))). Feed persistently, withstand the temperature. The first explosion with an unpleasant smell, then only the accumulation of bubbles in the thickness with almost no upward movement. Then the moment comes when, after the next feeding, bang! The increase is 2 times, and then incrementally. This is the norm.

Note

If you don't keep her in the cold and all that, you will have to feed every 12 hours according to the scheme. This is inconvenient and costly. But Hamelman proposes to reduce the number of dressings so that everything is not so wasteful and more convenient for the home baker. The scheme is simple. When you've grown your leaven and baked, for example, once a week, on Saturday. Since you will be kneading the dough on Saturday morning, part of the leaven left for divorce will be fed.

So:
saturday morning - fed, left until evening (until the peak) and put them in the refrigerator.
tuesday morning - taken out of the refrigerator, fed, left until evening (until ripening), put into the refrigerator
thursday morning - taken out of the refrigerator, fed, left until evening (until ripening), put into the refrigerator
Friday evening - they took it out of the refrigerator, fed it, left it until Saturday morning (until ripening) and knead the bread in the morning.

Yes, the surplus is thrown away or used anywhere: bread, pancakes, dough.
There is a way of German bakers. That is called salted sourdough. When feeding the starter culture, salt is added to it in an amount of up to 2% of the weight of the flour used. This allows you to keep the starter active for up to 48 hours before kneading the dough (usually 16 hours). Salt does not kill bacteria, but inhibits their activity.

Well, go for it, who is interested. I hope that someone is really interested, and I did not blow your mind completely))).

[Nata]

Nata, I got acquainted with your experience of breeding sourdough and everything seems to be simple. She abandoned sourdoughs due to the difficulty of maintaining the temperature regime, and bread began to be consumed much less (the main eaters moved out - the eldest sons, and the younger very rarely eats bread). Maybe I'll decide to start it again.
Something missed the moment where you throw out the leaven?

[Albina]

Albina,

Well, when you withdraw, only a third goes to the next stage, and when feeding, if you have nowhere to attach them.

Natasha, did I understand correctly that you need to put a new leaven before each baking? Doesn't the old (previous) leaven remain? Thank you.

[ninza]

ninza,

How does it not stay? Starter cultures can live for years. They just had to be fed. Otherwise, they acidify. Once you bring out / grow up and then only feed. Like a pet.

[Scarecrow]

ScarecrowNatasha, yesterday I put my pet in the fridge at the peak in the evening, a day has passed, I have to feed Her now, and on the table until morning, and then back into the fridge?

[Jiri]

Jiri,

In theory - every other day, that is, tomorrow. If we are just talking about feeding during storage.Hamelman suggests tidying up on Tuesday evening, for example, and getting it on Thursday morning. That is, if you cleaned it last night, then you should get it tomorrow morning and until evening on the table. But if you want to bake in the near future (tomorrow, for example), then - yes, as you said: get it, let it warm up for a while (an hour or two), feed it and leave it on the table until morning.

I always adhered to the principle: 1: 3 or 3: 1. It's easy to remember. That is, I fed the leaven and if it kept it for 1 hour at room temperature, then we put it in the refrigerator for 3 days. If 3 hours at room temperature, then 1 day can be stored in the refrigerator. Feed only fully warmed starter culture.

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, Natasha, thank you very much !!

Bread with walnuts and raisins from J. Hamelman on his own sourdough. But, I repeat, the sourdough in this bread is also not important, since a minimum amount of the mother's sourdough is taken to start work. In connection with this, her appearance does not affect anything. even its humidity has little effect in such quantities. But in this case, the leaven is exactly the one to which the topic is devoted:





Baguettes with J. Hamelman sourdough:

I always adhered to the principle: 1: 3 or 3: 1. It's easy to remember. That is, I fed the leaven and if it kept it for 1 hour at room temperature, then we put it in the refrigerator for 3 days. If 3 hours at room temperature, then 1 day can be stored in the refrigerator. Feed only fully warmed starter culture.

Can i ask you. And above it was written in the morning to feed and in the evening in the refrigerator for 2 days. Confused, keep at room temperature for an hour or until evening?

[InnaT.]

InnaT.,

These are two techniques and both have a right to exist. Hamelman offers his own "rhythm" of sourdough work. I'm used to another one suggested by another famous baker. In my opinion, the Hamelman system leads to some peroxidation of the leaven. This is probably good for "sour" rye breads, but not very (for my personal taste) for wheat breads. With my mode of operation with ready-made starter culture, it accumulates less acid.

Thank you, I wanted to clarify, because your 1: 3 method I liked better

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, Nata, and this leaven raises your bread? How much sourdough do you take per loaf of 500 grams of CP VS flour (total, including sourdough flour)? And how much yeast?

Do you like the aroma of the resulting bread? And most importantly - does wheat bread sour?

Wheat flour

What kind of flour do you take for feeding?

[Svetlenki]

Svetlenki,

I take sourdoughs for wheat bread in 500 grams of flour 200g (because plus yeast). I reduce the yeast from the prescription times by 2 (I use pressed). I haven’t tried the oven on this pure sourdough, because I love the stability of the process (in terms of production time) and there’s always no time. But the sourdough itself in the jar is very active, that is, why can't it raise bread. It just takes longer than adding yeast. And here, probably, there will be an accumulation of acidity, therefore it is better not to do this for wheat bread, but still help the bread with pressed yeast. The aroma of the bread is good and does not sour. I also added it to pancakes, pancakes - no acidity. But this, of course, is a subjective factor, you will have to try only on yourself. The girls above do not have enough acid at the maximum parameters of the acidification stage))).

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, Nata, Thank you. Fine!

What kind of flour do you take for feeding?

The bakery? No, probably ... I'm very interested in this question

[Svetlenki]

Svetlenki,

Oh, I forgot to answer. I take any. Ordinary VS flour, grade 1 for general use, which is available. I'm not worried about this at all)).

Again, Reinhart's baguettes, counted under 200g Hamelman's sourdough.


PS: for Sveta - they don't sour at all.

[Nata]

Reinhart's baguettes again

I saw yesterday, admired, smiled, that for me Shl is personally written ... But it's banal to write "beautiful baguettes", right? But since their beauty never left my head, I came - I am writing. Nata, delicious baguettes! I love the thin ones! I will be proud if I learn how to bake such!

Scarecrow,

what brand is the oven? Do you remember the model? Steam?

[Svetlenki]

Svetlenki,

* Scuffs with his foot *))): Thank you sincerely for the praise. In these I added a little manitoba and in vain: just rubber))).



Electrolux oven with steam. I don't have enough temperature, I just can't. She has a ceiling of 230. With steam / convection, of course, this is a lot, but not enough for me!)))

[Nata]

She has a ceiling of 230. With steam / convection, of course, this is a lot, but not enough for me!)))

Nata, and for what bread is not enough? Only rye, wheat-rye come to my mind

[Svetlenki]

Svetlenki,

Rye first. I've been periodically under the rye wood stoker. There you are! Wow! how cool and cool it turns out - finally!

Rye first. I've been periodically under the rye wood stoker. There you are! Wow! how cool and cool it turns out - finally!

Well, after the wood-burning oven, it will be oh so difficult to pick up! In any case, household. Well, that's what I think. I can't even imagine what the temperature is in the wood-burning stove there. 350? 400?

[Svetlenki]

Svetlenki,

I bake 350 rye bread. And the maximum there (in the sense, graduated) is up to 500.

[Scarecrow,]

Scarecrow, Hello! I was very interested in this method of removing the leaven! Thank you for delivering it to the general public! : rose: Could you please tell me - is it necessary to HAVE WHEAT whole-grain flour, or is it the highest grade of good quality?

[P_NATA]

P_NATA,

Wheat flour, ordinary, premium. Here rye is whole grain - it has a higher seeding rate.

[Chucha,]

Chucha, thank you for your quick reply! I will try to withdraw! ..

Well, Hamelman's baguettes arrived in time with his sourdough:
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[Nata]

Nata, oh what baguettes! And how many bubbles!
I immediately wanted to remove this leaven

I now have only "eternal" in the refrigerator

arrived in time

Beauty, Nata, give me a kusmanchik!

[Maroussia]

Maroussia,

The leaven doesn't really matter. It is taken in almost all Hamelman recipes 15 grams. The first stage is always "dough" on this leaven. Therefore, neither the type, nor even the moisture content is of fundamental importance. It will be delicious with anyone. Although, of course, each has a unique aroma.

[The first day.]

I'm in the process of growing Hamelman's sourdough again. At the moment, I have day 2. The entire feeding table is in the first post.

The first day. Only mixed, 24 hours at 25 degrees and the first signs of a stirring life - gas bubbles appeared in the thickness)). Raising zero.
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Second day... I just mixed it, taking the required amount from the first batch according to the table (at 9 am). Withstand at 26 degrees. At 21.00 I will show (on the second day, feeding every 12 hours, that is, at 21.00 there will be a second), but already the weight increase is more than 2.5 times. It's too early to rejoice, although it is clear that life is in full swing. However, microflora still grow and grow.

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[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, Nata, tell us more about smells, please.

Also, do you notice the color change?

[Svetlenki]

Svetlenki,

The smell after the first 24 hours is rotten. Sometimes it's just disgusting, reminiscent of fecal, but now rotten leaves. The color has not changed in any way. In the photo, after the second kneading, it seems lighter - it is lighter: the addition of 50g of wheat flour.

Great idea with a thin rubber band to mark the level. Brilliant, I would say. I would never have thought of it! So I hate making notes with a pencil! I got used to sticking scotch tape on which you can write, made notes on it, then you forget where which one and which one should be guided by.

[Svetlenki]

Svetlenki,

Sveta, almost everyone is doing this already! You just didn't come across it!))



Second day, evening. Growth after the first feeding on the second day, before the second one (on the second day, let me remind you, as in the next feeding every 12 hours, but rye and wheat in half. In the third and subsequent - wheat flour). And here is the growth in these 12 hours at 26 degrees. Approximately 2.5 times.The smell began to shift towards sour milk, sweetness with yogurt, the taste is sour. But this growth is not what we need. These are mainly mucus-forming and putrefactive bacteria "gas". The microflora will begin to shift in the other direction, under the influence of acid these "bad" ones will begin to die out and such lush growth will stop until wild yeast gains strength.

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Third day, morning... The picture before the first feeding of the third day. And here is an illustration of the fact that those "bad" are dying out. There is an uplift, but not enough. Sour milk began to rage - a bright smell of yogurt, sour taste. She was fed with wheat flour (I remind you that since the third day, only wheat flour has been used as top dressing) and left to hang out for 12 hours at 26 degrees.

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[Third day, evening.]

Third day, evening. This is the leg who already needs a leg)). Wild yeast began to grow. The smell is exactly yoghurt and yeast. After kneading a new portion - honey-floral. It tastes sour. But without bitterness. And it should be borne in mind that the starter culture is liquid as a result of lifting in a wide container is more difficult and acid accumulates more strongly.

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It tastes sour.

Uraaa !!! Our person! I wrote three times, then erased a couple of messages back so that you could taste and tell. And then you will scold me, like it is to try something raging

And it should be borne in mind that the starter culture is liquid as a result of lifting in a wide container is more difficult and acid accumulates more strongly.

I did not get it. Do you need a narrow vessel or a wide one, in connection with this circumstance?

After kneading a new portion

Are you punching with a blender?

Can you withstand the temperature of 26 degrees?

[Svetlenki]

Svetlenki,

How is it - I get angry ?? I can not)).

No, any vessel that is. Not necessarily narrow and high. Just keep in mind that the wider, the harder it is for the batter to rise.

I keep it at 26 degrees, I don't use a blender. Just a fork. The dough is still very liquid, it is easy to mix. But! First, I must measure the water, then I put the leaven into it. And stir it thoroughly. Then the flour. It is not difficult.

[fifth, last day]

Today fifth, last day withdrawal. The sourdough has a pleasant, not excessive sourness, lives already at 25 degrees, so that it does not get violent, but it still manages to rise and fall in 12 hours. In the photo, not the peak of the uplift, of course, but the stage of subsidence. The peak of the uplift is visible on the bank, there are marks around 800. That is, it is now giving rise to two and a half times. This morning I fed one to one for the first time. I convert all liquid starter cultures to 100% moisture. I don't think it will do much harm to Hamelman's leaven. It is almost identical in moisture, besides, it is more convenient for me to count recipes, knowing that water and flour are in my sourdough in half.

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And these are illustrations of how even mixed leaven is highly gassed. Microflora is working with might and main. The sourdough is liquid, mixed with a fork before feeding, only then is it poured into the required portion of water. And while she all floats on the surface.

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I don’t understand, why put it in the refrigerator at the peak? it will still mature in the refrigerator and settle, in theory

[Newbie]

Newbie,

What moment are you talking about?

Saturday morning - fed, left until evening (until the peak) and put it in the refrigerator.

from this

[Newbie]

Newbie,

This is how Hamelman describes the algorithm for working with his leaven. Falling down will fall, of course, but further processes will go very slowly.

I usually use the 1: 3 or 3: 1 principle. That is, 1 hour of fermentation at room temperature - 3 days we store in the refrigerator. 3 hours of fermentation at room temperature - 1 day in the refrigerator.

Sweet bread with Hamelmann sourdough. The one with orange peel. The leaven here is not a lifting force, but a flavoring addition. Loaf for 400g. Came out of the bucket Panasonic.
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Sweet bread

The thought immediately flashed through: "Thank you, Nata, for not showing the sandwich!" Funky crumb

The leaven here is not a lifting force, but a flavoring addition

For some reason it seems to me that bread will still affect the preservation of freshness. If you don’t eat it and put it in the freezer, whistle how it was stale or not stale. But, of course, it is unlikely that something will remain of such bread on Sunday.

[Svetlenki]

Svetlenki,

It will remain easy, you cannot imagine the degree of zazhratnost my household!)) It also seems to me that a certain rubberiness, and not crumbling, which often happens with baking, should be present. Starter culture went 200 g, it is 100% moisture. Overfeed three times a day (so that the accumulated acid would almost disappear in taste) and then only put it into baking. There is no acid in bread. Absolutely.

It will remain easy, you can not imagine the degree of zazhrast my household!

And I thought that it was just all so difficult for me ... Phew, relieved! Let's consider that this is a compliment to the family cook. So they fed them that they don't overeat with bread.

Overfeed three times a day (so that the accumulated acid would almost disappear in taste) and then only put it into baking. There is no acid in bread. Absolutely.

For me this is the most difficult thing ... Where to dump the leftovers. You probably feed chickens?

[Svetlenki]

Svetlenki,

You are perceptive!))) Yeah, chickens. I throw it into a saucepan with food leftovers, there it will also ferment everything, then I boil the chickens in the evening.)) I feed, by the way, inexpensive 1st grade flour. Therefore, I used to throw it out calmly - it's not a pity. Moreover, the standard feeding is once a day. This is so bad before baking. I do not like sour.

The constant amount of sourdough is 100 g of water and flour. Starter cultures - when 50 grams, when less (what is left on the walls). Therefore, all this is either spent on bread / pancakes, or thrown away, but the price of the issue is 100g of 1st grade flour. It costs 60 rubles per 2 kg.

Sveta, I bring you pieces cut from the same loaf yesterday: rubbery and non-crumbling. Bread for two days. I cut it this morning too - the same. Well, not so much as a classic French type bread, but very much for a well-made bread. You yourself see smooth cuts without breaks and shaggy:

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Nata, well, but still, if we compare, bread with the addition of sourdough hardens more slowly than bread according to the same recipe without it? On the example of this bread? Or is there no significant difference?

The crumb is lace-lace.