egghead
This message partially duplicates the topic. https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=425278.0 , but during the development of the methodology, changes appeared that are interesting to talk about.

As you know, yeast rye-wheat bread has a bland taste and aroma, ready-made dry sourdoughs (the same Extra-R) improve the situation, but the taste is roughened, while the natural sourdough completely reveals the bread's taste. However, there is one significant drawback here. If you are a busy, hard-working person who bakes rye bread from time to time, and a little scattered, then you cannot devote time and attention to the ripening of the leaven. I don’t know about others, but it’s not working for me. I usually forget to keep track of the leaven and it spoils. I simply don’t want to turn the ripening of the leaven into a hobby. In general, this circumstance prompted attempts to develop a kind of "hybrid" method of obtaining sourdough, a portion of which immediately goes to baking bread (ripening takes place in a bucket of HP and there is not much fuss with sourdough in general). The whole process takes a day. As an accelerator of natural starter maturation we use the well-known ready-made “Extra-R” starter culture. It contains fermented red malt, ascorbic acid and amylase. Ascorbic acid acidifies the dough, immediately creating an environment favorable for the development of lactic acid microorganisms, and not favorable for the development of any putrefactive microbes, and amylase helps these organisms break down starch, and, accordingly, develop at an accelerated rate. True, there is a moment - the method has been worked out on Panasonic, for other HP models, you may have to change something.

Coming home from work at 19.00, I put 270 g of ordinary peeled rye flour, 1 tbsp. l Extra-R and 330 ml of water. For a guaranteed result, you need to add a tablespoon of any kefir. (You can also use dry starter cultures for making yoghurts. I settled on 1.5 tablespoons of fermented milk agush made with bifidoacidophilic starter culture. This option was recommended to me by a comrade - a biochemist).
I turn on the "pizza" dough mode and use a plastic spatula to knead (it is necessary to help with a spatula, otherwise flour will remain in the corners with this consistency).
The next morning I turn on the dumplings test mode and go to work.
When I come back at 19.00 in the evening - the leaven (Well, it is clear that this is not exactly a leaven, but a dough skewed into lactic acid fermentation) increases in volume by about one and a half times and traces of large bubbles are visible on its surface (on Panas 2501 I look to the dough has risen over the upper edge of the kneading spatula, the one with a comb).

Then we add the rest of the ingredients and carry out the fermentation, aging and baking

Bread baked in a similar way is almost identical in taste to bread using natural sourdough, to which still fermented malt is added. But, as you know, all markers are different in taste and color, and among the visitors of this forum there are a lot of supporters of "honest" leaven, but at the same time few of them understand why it is "honest". Therefore, as a hardcore component of this method, a chemical analysis was carried out on a Shimadzu research gas mass chromass.

1. Classic three-stage sourdough dough. Ripening time 4 days
Fast dough in 1 day, and comparison with the traditional three-stage

In short - peaks represent substances, peak area is equivalent to concentration.
In order: 1st peak - some ethyl acetate, 2 - ethyl alcohol, 3 - 2-butanone, 4 - vinegar, 5 - lactic acid

2. Fast dough. Ripening time in a bucket of HP is 1 day.
Fast dough in 1 day, and comparison with the traditional three-stage

1st peak - ethyl alcohol, 2 - vinegar, 3 - lactic acid

NOTE
Unfortunately, during the experiment, the operator was too lazy to determine the absolute concentrations of the components, and he presented only their relative values. However, he conducted duplicate experiments using a more sensitive vapor-phase sample preparation, which confirmed the correctness of the given graphs, as well as the presence of a noticeably larger amount of undesirable fermentation products (booze) in the classic sourdough (yes, yes, in the "honest" one). However, if we take ethyl alcohol as a benchmark, then the concentration of lactic acid, which for the most part determines the quality of the starter culture in a classic dough, is also several times higher.

CONCLUSIONS: Taking into account the smaller amount of natural sourdough compared to quick dough, when baking 1 portion of bread, it turns out that the absolute amount of lactic acid added to a portion of bread, the sourdoughs are at least EQUIVALENT. Because the rest of the components mostly evaporate during baking. Oddly enough, one can note the presence in the classical three-stage ferment of a noticeable amount of 2-butanone, that is, methyl ethyl ketone - a component of the booze and its absence in the “fast” ferment (in the vapor phase it was determined in trace amounts). The amount of acetic acid in both cases is significantly overestimated, because it comes out on the graphs together with water. In both cases, no radically harmful substances were found.
Suns
Very interesting! I just recently purchased HP, I also have no time to bother with sourdough, but I want a tastier bread. I think that such a quick leaven will make the bread taste brighter. So far I am doing it either just on a regular dough, in 4-6 hours, or on an aged dough. In order to try your daily fast dough, specials are not enough. dry sourdough. Do you think it makes sense to try without it? I can add ascorbic acid ...


Added on Tuesday 03 Jan 2017 07:10 PM

Quote: egghead
Extra-R
I’m talking about her, we don’t have such a thing, but ordering only her through the Internet is somehow not rational, you will pay more for delivery ...
egghead
I can assume, and most likely it will work, instead of using extra-p, use a mixture of NON-fermented malt, ascorbic acid, probiotic (called agusha) and some calcium preparation to activate amylase from unfermented malt (for example 1/10 calcium gluconate tablet from a pharmacy - it costs a penny). However, two problems arise here: 1) It is necessary to carefully select the amount of ascorbic acid so that the acidity of the "fast" starter at the moment of "start" is within the pH = 5.5-6.0 optimal for the growth of bifidobacteria, and for this you need a device for the name "pH meter" (can be obtained from friends who are seriously interested in aquarium fish) 2) you may have to add fermented malt. In general, something like that. You need to try all this ...
Suns
Uguuuu…. Well, they seem to have promised to bring the malt to the store, agusha is not a problem, there is also gluconate left to find fish lovers Thanks for the quick answer, I immediately decided to try it, without checking the Pn balance, by eye, suddenly it will come out !? everything in bits.…. Let's see what happens

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