French modern sourdough (liquid)

[Erik Kaiser's modern liquid starter]

Erik Kaiser's modern liquid starter

French sourdoughs, traditional and modern, begin as a liquid mixture of rye flour and water. After this mixture is fermented, the traditional thick dough starter or the modern liquid is made from it.
The liquid starter culture according to the Kaiser's recipe is started in warm water (40C) and fermented at high T (about 30C).

Recipes for both starter cultures (and many others) were published in the French magazine Les Nouvelles de boulangerie and patisserie in the March 1996 issue (N ° 49 (1996) Levains et panification)

We can prepare modern (liquid) starter culture according to the recipe of Eric Kaiser at home.

We need: 100 gr. rye flour (preferably wallpaper, but not necessary), 10 gr. malt, water, wheat flour, a non-metallic bowl and it would be good with a lid, a thermometer is already a luxury and 3 days.

So, the first day, right in the morning and start:

We take 100 gr. rye flour
120 g water 40 * C
10 gr. malt



We mix and get a dense lump:



We take from her 110 gr. add 110 gr. water 40 * C and shake with a fork until foam is obtained:



We do everything the same way and now we are closely watching her. She will be ready in
6 hours at + 33 * С
12 hours at + 30 * С
16 hours at + 27 * C, for some reason, after 6 hours and at 27 * C, mine was ready:



Why so fast, I guess. Most likely the reason is wallpaper flour. A full cycle was prepared for the same filling on the peeling one.
Well, that's actually all I do to get a liquid French sourdough. I really want everyone who wants to raise her to turn out beautiful, active and live a long, long time bringing joy!
Sourse of information: 🔗

How to store and feed the starter culture
Store the starter culture in plastic or glass containers. Avoid prolonged contact with metal, of course you can stir with a regular spoon or fork.
If you bake frequently, it may be easier to keep the starter at room temperature. Let's say you bake with sourdough once a week, on Saturdays. You can, of course, keep the sourdough in the cold from Saturday to Thursday, but it's easier to keep the sourdough warm and renew it several times, it will only be healthier.
The aroma of a leaven that lives in the cold will be poorer than that of a leaven that is not cooled below 10 C.

Take a clean jar and measure out 5 g of leaven. Add 20 g of water and stir well (with a fork). Add 20 g flour, stir well and cover. If the house is not hot (no more than 20 C), then maybe you will be able to get out of the second feeding a day.
Look at the behavior of the leaven. The ripe starter culture will swell and bubble. If you pick it up with a spoon, then it will stretch, you will see the gluten threads.
The overripe leaven will fall off and lose its structure, but nothing bad will happen to it, and after the next feeding it will return to its previous appearance and properties.
The feeding proportions can be changed depending on the temperature. You can feed her in a ratio of 1: 4: 4, that is, 1 part sourdough to 4 parts water and 4 parts flour.
On a cool day, if the house is 15 degrees, you can feed 1: 3: 3, and even 1: 2: 2.
And if it's hot +25, you can increase the proportion to at least 1: 5: 5.

Cold storage of starter culture:
The starter culture is not stored in an ordinary home refrigerator, because lactic acid bacteria will die there, they are too cold there, because in an ordinary refrigerator, T adheres to around 0-4C.

After the starter culture is fed with water and flour, it is kept for 1-3 hours at room temperature (20-25C) and then placed in a cool place (8-12C).

If, after feeding, you hold the starter culture for 1 hour at room temperature, then then it can be stored for three days at 10C (then feed it again).
If the starter culture is kept after feeding at room temperature for 3 hours, then it can then be stored at 10C for a day (then feed it again).

We take out the leaven from a cool place (cellar, bag - refrigerator, etc.) and let it warm up for an hour. Then we feed.
We knead the leaven that was kept in the cold into the dough only after it has warmed up, fed and rose. Otherwise, we risk getting poor quality bread.

[Question:]

Question:
Where can you store French starter cultures?
Answer:
- in plastic containers with an open small opening. And the leaven breathes and does not weather.
- in a glass jar covered with a lid with holes (for canning) or a linen napkin.

Question:
Is it possible to start growing French sourdough using regular rye flour?
Answer:
you can "make" a Frenchwoman by starting with any rye, BUT if there is wallpaper, then it is better to take it.

Question:
What is the best temperature for storing French sourdough?
Answer:
It is best to store the starter culture at a temperature not lower than 12 *

Question:
Can the starter be fed less often?
Answer:
To feed the sourdough less often, for example, once every 2-3 days, it is salted (2 g of salt per 100 g of fresh flour in top dressing).

Question:
How to refresh baking sourdough?
Answer:
If you need a sourdough for baking, and more than 8 hours have passed since feeding, then the sourdough must be refreshed in the following proportion: 100 g of sourdough, 50 g of flour, 50 g of water. After 4 hours, it will be ready for mixing into dough or dough.

Question:
How to feed the starter correctly?
Answer:
The correct proportions of fresh flour to old flour in the refreshed sourdough must be observed. Fresh flour should be at least 1.5 times the amount of flour in the sourdough. For example, if the steep sourdough contains 50 g of flour and 25 g of water, then you need to feed at least 70-400 grams of fresh flour and add water to the steep dough. If you feed with less flour, then the crumb of the bread will acquire a mouse-gray color.

Question:
What to do with excess leaven?
Answer:
Feed, use to bake pancakes, pancakes, or dispose of.

Question:
How to calculate% of starter hydration?
Answer:
The moisture content of the sourdough is the water content expressed in baking percentages, that is, the flour and water that go into the sourdough is calculated as a percentage by weight, with all flour being taken as 100%. That is, in a leaven with a moisture content of 100%, equal amounts of flour and water by weight. In sourdough with a moisture content of 80% 4 parts of water and 5 parts of flour, 150% - 3 parts of water and 2 flour, etc.

Post-scratch - Vorosy and Answers

[Question:]

Question:
How to tell if the starter is ready for baking?
Answer:
It all depends on what you want to get as a result.
If you want to bake bread without adding yeast, then the moment it doubles is what you need.
If after "feeding" more than 8 hours have passed, then it is better to refresh the leaven by taking flour and water in total as much as the leaven weighs. For example: 100 gr. sourdough = 50 gr. water and 50 gr. flour. When it doubles, you can bake.
If you want to improve the quality of yeast bread, you can use a very young leaven.

Question:
During feeding, with a different ratio of sourdough / new dough (say 1: 2 and 1:20) does the acidity of the sourdough change, or does this only affect the fermentation time?
Answer:
Chemical measurements of acidity show that acidity is not affected. But after keeping the leaven in the refrigerator (at t 5 * C), the acidity increases significantly.

Question:
What is leaven softening and how to do it correctly?
Answer:
When the sourdough is ready, it must be periodically refreshed (they also say "soften" or "feed") by adding flour and water in high proportions. We take one spoonful (gram 5) from the active starter and shake strongly with 100 g of water until foamy. Then add 100g of flour. The rejuvenated sourdough, after rising 2 times, is already ready for baking again

Question:
What can you do with the leaven if it has increased 2-2.5 times?
Answer:
a) it can be used (both for dough and directly into the dough);
b) if the remainder of the unused sourdough is large, then there is no point in feeding it all, it is better to throw it away, and feed the remainder;
c) before leaving for two days for storage at a suitable temperature, you need to feed in a large proportion, say, 1 to 20, leave it warm for an hour or two for the process to start, and then send it for storage.

Question:
What kind of flour is better to feed French sourdough?
Answer:
In flour of 1 and 2 grades for sourdough there is much more "tasty", it ripens on this flour much faster than on the highest grade. If you need to quickly, it is better to feed the 2nd grade, if you need to "slow down", then the highest.

Question:
Can the starter be dried and how to do it?
Answer:
The main thing is to apply a thin layer of the non-fermented starter culture on a sheet of parchment (it will continue to work during the drying process), dry it at room temperature, and pour the resulting mass into a jar. Leave at room temperature. Then, if necessary, add some water, let it swell a little, revive, feed, and then - everything, as usual

Question:
Is it possible to somehow use the leftovers when growing the starter culture?
Answer:
IN NO CASE!!! Flush mercilessly down the toilet. At the stage of cultivation, there is a breeding ground for a wide variety of bacteria and microorganisms. There has not yet formed a stable symbiosis of beneficial lactic acid bacteria and wild yeast, there is a continuous war between "ours" and "strangers".

Question:
Why shouldn't starving leaven be put into bread?
Answer:
Hungry sourdough means fallen, which means that acetic acid is already raging there, so it will turn out - sour bread.

Question:
What does it mean to feed the leaven "empty? And for what?"
Answer:
It means feeding the starter culture, allowing it to grow to its maximum, taking a portion, feeding it, waiting for the increase and only then baking. This is done in order to give the leaven strength and at the same time see how it grows, how long it takes. After the refrigerator, of course, it is advisable to warm the leaven, feed it and only then send it to the dough.

Question:
How long does French sourdough live?
Answer:
On average about 6 months. After that, it becomes emasculated and gradually loses its valuable properties. Therefore, it is recommended to grow a new starter culture.

Question
Can sourdough be grown without malt?
Answer
Malt is a must in a liquid French sourdough.

[Examples of white bread baking with this sourdough.]

Examples of white bread baking with this sourdough.

[Examples of baking gray bread with this sourdough.]

Examples of baking gray bread with this sourdough.

[Examples of baking sweet bread using this sourdough.]

Examples of baking sweet bread using this sourdough.

[What should I do next?]

Girls, I look at your creations and envy white envy. So far I've only got rye p / f from Viki. I decided to raise a Frenchwoman. Yesterday I put it. Today (in a day) I need to feed according to the second point, and I have it as it was and is, it has not increased and it smells very good, delicious dough. Is that how it should be? I kept it under the battery (T = 24-25 g). Question: What should I do next?.

[Rusya]

Rusya , I myself have just gone through this circle! Yesterday I baked the first bread https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=99060.new#new ... Do everything as written: feed on schedule. Sooner it grows and smells .. The dough just has to become thinner. Experts will correct me if I wrote something wrong! Good luck!; D

Thank you, I went to feed.

[Omela]

Experts will correct me if I wrote something wrong!

Everything is correct Omela , Thank you!
Rusya, good luck !!!

I have a question again: my leaven is three days old, that is, I fed it and it should be ready after so many hours. Should it be bubbling at this stage or not yet? Mine was what it was and remained, only it still began to smell bad. It seems that my sourdough didn't work out this time either.

[Rusya]

Rusya , I had this: the bubbles are large on top, and small throughout the volume, increased by 1/3, there was no unpleasant smell .. stood at room temperature on the table in a glass jar under a towel.

[Omela]

Omela , the fact of the matter is that there are no bubbles at all. And it does not increase at all.

[Rusya]

Rusya , I had this when the leaven was cold ...

[Lisss's]

Lisss's , so I first put it under the battery, checked it with a thermometer of 24-25 * C, and then generally put it on the battery - 35 * C there.
I'm already sinning on flour, it’s too good for me. For the weekend I'll go buy a peeled or wallpaper and try again.
There is already a question of principle: either she is me, or I am her (leaven).
Everyone succeeds, and I get worse.

[Rusya]

I'm already sinning on flour, it’s too good for me.

Rusya
You are on the right track: I experimented with feeding an excellent sourdough culture with different flour of the highest grade, but with different quality. A noticeable difference!
Fed with "bad" flour, the leaven felt worse.
Change the flour and everything will work out for you 🔗

[lana7386]

lana7386... Thanks for the support. I will try with another flour and unsubscribe.

[lana7386]

lana7386... Thanks for the support. I will try with another flour and unsubscribe.

Rusya
🔗

Girls, went through the whole bazaar, did not find wallpaper or peeled wheat flour. I bought pure wheat for germination. If you grind it into flour, will it go to feed the sourdough?

[Rusya]

Rusya , I am not a great specialist, so I immediately went to knowledgeable people to consult. And they, or rather she - Gasha - Our sourdough marshmallow, said that it is not just possible to feed wheat ground into flour, but necessary, and it will be even better for her (the leaven). Because the milled wheat is not refined, which means there is more gluten in it and the sourdough will develop faster. I also have a grain of wheat and rye, so I also went to grind!

[Omela]

Omela, thank you, dear! : - * I got you with my questions.

Well, here's another !!! If not for you, would I have known where to attach my wheat and rye! Hivemind is Power !!

So, take two. I put it on Sunday, today it is already the third day. Well what can I say? The flight is normal! She was bubbling tonight. In the morning I fed, and now it has almost doubled. Hurrah! She is alive!!!
I conclude that the problem was in the premium wheat flour, it is not suitable for this. Now it remains to save it and bake bread on it.
Girls, thank you all very much for the consultation.

[Rusya]

Rusya, Congratulations!! : flowers: Our took !!! 🔗

I conclude that the problem was in the premium wheat flour, it is not suitable for this.

Repeatedly obtained sourdough on Bogumil, high quality

[taty]

Repeatedly obtained sourdough on Bogumil, high quality

Hurrah! She is alive!!!
I conclude that the problem was in the premium wheat flour, it is not suitable for this.

I join the replica taty disagreeing with the conclusion Rusya that sourdough on premium wheat flour Does not work. It turns out great! Tested on my own experience But flour is needed with a high protein content (10.3 and more!), That is, high quality from durum wheat
Even feeding the already ripe sourdough with excellent flour is much more "like" the Sourdough These are my observations for two years

Lana, I've also been baking sourdough for a couple of years now.
Bogumila in Ukraine is listed as flour of the state order protein 10.3
Why am I writing about this, it's just that the girls might have something wrong
And so that those who cannot buy wheat are not upset, it is possible to try to create and maintain a ferment on premium flour.
On the advice of Raisin, sometimes I added honey on the tip of a teaspoon, with the next feeding. And salt does not interfere with adding and when the leaven becomes more liquid "suddenly", salt strengthens the structure
Rus has useful research

[taty, lana7386]

taty, lana7386, girls, thanks for your participation. I bake with Dnipromlin flour. I really like it, but apparently it's better to take another for the sourdough. I grew my sourdough on ground wheat, but then I decided to feed it with flour and she ordered me to live long. So, it all depends on the flour.

[taty and rusya]

Girls,taty and rusya 🔗
Of course, we all try at least a little to find some regularity and share our experience in growing Sourdough and its content! Something to help somebody
The main thing that turned out and lived our assistant is Sourdough.
It seems to me that even the shelf life, storage conditions, even a batch of flour carries suchwhat makes her different

I bought Dnipromlin two years ago, by the way, the dough was tough from it, which means that the gluten is increased, but this year the flour is said to be unimportant
Rusya, what does it mean that the leaven is gone, how did it look?
It smelled bad - it's like sour or acetone (chemical smell)

First, she was not active at all. Secondly, it was covered with a grayish moldy crust and smelled like sour milk.
I was afraid to revive her. I'll raise some more bacteria monsters.
Well, I won't grow a new starter for myself.

I also met this option at Oli-Eliabeli 🔗

"First you need to make a liquid starter from Erik Kaiser:
Source: Eric Kayser. 100% Pain. Paris, Solar, 2006
1) Whisk 50 grams of warm water with 50 grams of whole grain flour. Leave to sour under wet gauze for 24 hours at a temperature of 20-25 degrees.
2) Whisk 100 g of water with 100 g of flour type 65 and 20 g of sugar. Mix with the previous mixture. Leave to sour under wet gauze for 24 hours at a temperature of 20-25 degrees.
3) Whisk 100 g of water with 100 g of flour type 65 and 20 g of sugar. Mix with the previous mixture. Leave to sour under wet gauze for 24 hours at a temperature of 20-25 degrees.
Whisk 200 g of water with 200 g of flour type 65. Mix with the previous mixture. Leave to sour under wet gauze for 24 hours at a temperature of 20-25 degrees.

The liquid starter culture is stored in the refrigerator for 8 days in a hermetically sealed container. After this period, it requires feeding. "
PS I didn't ...

Hello girls. I'm new on your site, although I have been using a bread machine for a long time, I baked bread in the oven several times, but it never came to sourdough. My questions will probably be thoroughly funny, but I'll try ...
1. I want to put the leaven fr. liquid. After the first batch, I wait 24 hours, then it is written to take 110 g of leaven, add 110 g of water and 110 g of flour, mix everything and ADD TO THE FIRST STEEL ???
And so every time ???
2. After the starter culture is completely ready, should it be used immediately? How much should you leave? And how often do you need to feed afterwards if it stands at room temperature?
I don’t know if I’m clearly writing, if anything I ask excuse the kettle

InnaT, welcome to us, fermentors!

Try to read the topic "Sourdoughs in questions and answers", you will find answers to many questions.

[InnaT.]

1. After the first batch, I wait 24 hours, then it is written to take 110g of leaven, add 110g of water and 110g of flour, mix everything and add it to the first leaven ???
And so every time ???
2. After the starter culture is completely ready, should it be used immediately? How much should you leave? And how often do you need to feed afterwards if it stands at room temperature?

InnaT., Welcome!
1.After 24 hours, take 110 gr. from what happened, add water and flour and that's it. What these 110 grams were taken from. you throw it away - this is a building material, part of it will go to work, and the rest is no longer needed.
2. At room temperature she will get hungry for 6 - 8 hours. So feed her 3 - 4 times a day, it is better to find a cooler place for her.

Thank you very much, that's what I wanted to know. Today I will try

Girls, the leaven seems to be ready, what to do now ??? How much to take for baking and how much to leave for later. And if it's not difficult, write what to do with it next, what part and how to feed it and where it is better to put it.

[InnaT.]

InnaT. , while Viki is not, I will answer. Will come and fix it.

Girls, the leaven seems to be ready, what to do now ??? How much to take for baking

You can use any amount of starter culture from 50 to 500g:

100g. Farm sourdough bread.

200g. Simple black sourdough bread

500g. 100% rye with rye-kefir sourdough

what part and how to feed and where better to put.

Better to put in a cool place. The ideal temperature is -10C -12C. The warmer, the more often you need to feed. For example, at room temperature, every 6-8 hours.

I personally keep it in the refrigerator. I bake every 3-5 days. I take out, feed. Part in bread, the rest I feed again, wait for activity and in the refrigerator.

Omela thanks, and how to feed correctly? How much to take and how much to add? As I understand it, after feeding, you need to keep it at room temperature and then in the refrigerator? When I take it out of the refrigerator, I need to feed it, wait until it rises and use it ??? And when and how much you need to separate in order to put it in the refrigerator next time. Sorry for the stupidest questions, I just never did and I brake in full

InnaT. , the questions are not stupid - it was such a thing quite recently!

See how I'm doing. I have 150g in my fridge. sourdough. I take it out, take 100g. (I throw away the rest), add 100g. I mix warm water, 100g. rye (or other flour), cover with a towel and leave for 3-4 hours (it's hot in my kitchen). I draw on the bank at risk. Should increase at least 2 times.

When the leaven came up, I take 250g from it. and I bake this bread, for example:

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=103534.0

The remaining 50g. I mix with 50g. warm water and 50g. rye flour. I cover with a towel, leave for an hour - 1.5. As the bubbles appeared, I close the lid with holes and into the refrigerator.

When to bake bread next time. I take it out of the refrigerator and repeat the whole cycle

Omela thank you very much !!! I will sculpt!

[InnaT.]

InnaT. , Good luck!

I am all new to your cohort.
I just acquired HP. True, the goal was not baking, mainly a focus on jam and butter. But, if there is HP, why not bake it yourself.
I tried standard solutions - the bread turned out to be good, they ate it quickly. I didn’t understand if it’s good bread or not.
Then she baked "French" - there is no butter, it turned out to be kind of loose, on the 3rd day it crumbles altogether, although after baking it was airy and beautiful.
Fresh bread is generally bad for the stomach, and we try to eat daily aged bread.
I was interested in your methods - I decided to try to bake bread with sourdough.
I read all your questions and answers. All clear. Anything can be done by following your experience.
And yet there are two questions:
1. Where to get malt ?. I rummaged through the Internet
found 🔗 Is Rye Malt Ukraine what you need?
Or is it something special in your case?
2. Can this leaven be used to bake wheat bread?
And, perhaps I missed something, when laying in the form of HP, where is the place for the leaven?
What's the order?
Thanks in advance for your attention to newbies.

let me answer you point by point

1. The link malt will certainly do. I used just this

2. French sourdough - actually specifically for wheat bread, it is grown specifically for baking wheat bread. We are already here adapting it for rye

3. Read about baking in HP better than these Temki
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=13348.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=13276.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=12549.0

I have HP Mulinex and I put the leaven on the liquid, on top of the flour.