French traditional sourdough (thick)

[French traditional sourdough (thick)]

French traditional sourdough (thick)

Each French baker creates a traditional French sourdough in his bakery every six months.

It is believed that after six months of cultivation, the sourdough dries up and loses its complex aroma and becomes too sour for the French taste.

Thick French sourdough is recognized as traditional, as most bakers believe that traditional French bread turns out to be more aromatic and tastier than with liquid sourdough.



The technology for making traditional French sourdough was published in the French magazine Les Nouvelles de boulangerie and patisserie in the March 1996 issue (N ° 49 (1996) Levains et panification).

We can prepare this leaven at home. It is started in cold, very cold (5C) water and fermented at room temperature (20-25C).
We will need rye wallpaper flour, white wheat flour (not bleached) and 4 - 5 days.

Sourse of information: 🔗

Day 1:
100g rye flour + 120g water at room temperature. Stir and leave for 24 hours at room temperature.

It turns out such a tight lump:


Day 2:

Here's what we see after 24 hours:


Now you need to take half of this rye mixture, add 200g of white wheat flour and 60g of cold water (5C). stir and leave for 18 hours at room temperature.

That's what I did:



Day 3.

She began to grow:



Take 300 g of the resulting mixture and add 300 g of white wheat flour and 150 g of cold water to it (5C). Knead a firm dough, leave for 12 hours at room temperature.

Here it turns noticeably white:


Day 4.
Take 200 g of the resulting starter culture, 200 g of white wheat flour, 110 g of cold water (5C). Knead, cover and leave to ferment for 8 hours at room temperature.

After this period, take 200 g of the resulting sourdough, add 200 g of flour and 110 g of cold water (5C), knead and leave for 24 hours in a REFRIGERATOR (6-8C).
The traditional French sourdough can then be used in bread dough.

An example of a French sourdough bread dough:

500g sourdough
700g white wheat flour
450g water
14g salt

Knead, let it ferment for 3 hours with one stir in the middle of fermentation. Form the bread, proof for 2.5 hours and bake.

Vicky, don't delete the topic - it's necessary. We copy a lot and select information from open sources. I don't see this as a big problem. And Lyudmila also took information about sourdoughs from some sources - after all, this is not an invention of today's heroes, right?
I follow this topic - although I have a grape sourdough, but infa on a cool traditional one is also interesting.
I noticed that a tough starter gives a better flavor than a liquid one. Or maybe I'll do the next one cool? and then fill up the Temko. Or someone else will be interested. It is better when everything is in the native forum. And Lyudmila's LJ at any time may become inaccessible infa, right?

Vicky, don't delete the topic - it's necessary.

I must have missed something ... Why delete the topic? Beautifully decorated, with self-made photos and always at hand.
Vika, don't even think about it

I must have missed something ...

Apparently I too ... There will come a moment when I decide on a French sourdough, but there will be no topic ... she, I dragged this "Frenchwoman" into my bins away from sin ... so calmer.

Everything's under control.
The link to the source remained in the previous topic, well, tupanula, apologized, added a link. Sometimes it happens.

Or maybe I'll do the next one cool? and then fill up the Temko.

now this is getting interesting, let's wait ...

[Now you need to take half of this rye mixture, add 200g of white wheat flour and 60g of cold water (5C). stir and leave for 18 hours at room temperature.]

I've never made sourdoughs, so don't be surprised at the stupidity of the questions:
Now you need to take half of this rye mixture, add 200g of white wheat flour and 60g of cold water (5C). stir and leave for 18 hours at room temperature.
What to do with the second half, as well as further
Take 300 g of the resulting mixture and add 300 g of white wheat flour and 150 g of cold water to it (5C). Knead a firm dough, leave for 12 hours at room temperature. - what to do with the rest, throw it away?

[izumka]

what to do with the rest, throw it away?

Definitely throw it away. This is just a working material for growing sourdough, and it is already used up. This means that you need to sacrifice something to achieve the goal.
izumka, good luck!

And the leaven is good, I like it more liquid, and it is easier to make, it does not sour, and the temperature is lower.

Tattoo, but no one argues, especially since Vicky has already corrected and indicated the source

and even if I did not translate foreign magazines and did not write original articles, nevertheless, this does not prevent me from expressing my own opinion. I asked the author of the topic not to delete the information.
As far as I know, Vicki is always very attentive to the indication of the source, and to suspect her of plagiarism is absolutely unthinkable for me. as well as for you the authority of Lyudmila is immutable.
If a person has simply forgotten - then you can recall of course, but to reproach - I do not see an urgent need.

Dear ones, well, what are you))) What kind of plagiarism can we talk about if everyone has long been familiar with the works and articles of Lyudmila and more than once sent words of thanks to her

I instantly recognize her articles.

Well, there is a hole in the old woman, the person forgot to insert a link to the original source, not to execute him for this?)) Moreover, he immediately corrected it as soon as he noticed an oversight

[lot]

Vika is great
Just two years ago without fr sourdough on a bread maker. ru like
and something was missing, as well as without the old ripe dough.
Zest and Vika lot have put in
There is good in any moment, maybe someone will discover French traditional, which requires less dancing around ...
And then the topic has not been in demand for more than a year.

[lot]

Zest and Vika lot we did our best, but there is always someone who was before ... [/ i]

but who would argue, but not me)) I didn’t get out of Ludmila’s LiveJournal for weeks and studied and studied))

Most likely, there was a misunderstanding with the absence of a reference to the source.

At first there was a common theme for both leavens, at the beginning of which there was a reference. Then Vika divided the topics into thick and liquid. Looks like in the process of work and released the link.

By the way, Oleg writes interestingly:
...Recently, I got the impression that the attitude towards yeast among bakers of homemade bread has become somehow tense or even worse - cautious, as if yeast made in the factory from an elite material under strict quality and safety control (and they are analyzed by appearance, color and smell, biochemical and bacteriological indicators, on the strength of fermentation and on the predisposition to storage), not only can, but must also cause harm! But the spontaneous fermentation sourdough, grown (eh ... from what and as soon as not grown ...) and stored at home without any serious control is absolutely safe, it is 100% trusted and, moreover, it dearly love!
Yeast and sourdough became some kind of antipodes, as during the war between "lemeshists and goat women", when one great tenor Sergei Lemeshev was opposed to another great tenor Ivan Kozlovsky.
I would like to hope that this sieve information will help to better take a closer look at these small microorganisms - baking yeast, without which, for example, my bread-making would be offensively limited ...
🔗

[Viki]

Viki 🔗
And how is the thick leaven taken care of, how is it fed? To be continued? Interesting, especially since it is supposedly better than liquid ... Although it seemed to me that could not be better...

[taty]

Girls, dear, this topic has been in the moderator's archive since 2009, since it did not develop, there was no need, the liquid is already good and convenient, and they do not look for good from the good. On the liquid side, the work was done by the same moderator staff, but this one remained. The previous topic began with a link to the original source, and when they asked how to grow dense ... well, I took it out of the archive. Didn't really look, forgive me.

taty, because my baking as a way of life began with Ludmila's LiveJournal, I never stop thanking her. Please accept my apologies, I didn’t on purpose, I wrote you an answer in the morning that I fixed everything and thank you for the reminder and wanted to add, start to edit and delete both my and your message. After a day at work .... I understand that this is not an excuse, probably the moderator I am useless .... once again I apologize. There was no malicious intent in my actions, believe me.

Vika, apparently deleted the mail, sorry

I grow a traditional sourdough. This is my first experience (finally I found time for it!) This morning the leaven was sent to the refrigerator for the final chord and tomorrow it should be ready.

Tell me, is this young leaven strong enough to lift dough without yeast and gluten?

So far I do not have molds and baking stones in the oven (but they will!). Tell me the recipe for white French bread in HP on this sourdough. While wandering the forum, I did not find what I was looking for ...

[Vitus]

Vitus, welcome to us!
So tomorrow you will become a leavener? I hope you will not be disappointed.
Traditional French is not the most popular with us for one reason - there is a liquid one, which is more convenient in calculations. She has for every 100 grams. flour - 100 gr. water and even a beginner can count any recipe. And in the traditional 100 gr. flour only 55 - 60 gr. water and must be counted, counted, counted.
Therefore, sooner or later, it is transferred from thick to liquid for convenience.
And we have recipes for thick. Here, take a look in this thread:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=7314.0 there the sister of your sourdough is also French and also thick. And they behave in the same way when baking.

Viki - sourdough bread - an old dream, probably from the second day of buying HP :-) Yes, there was not enough time. I believe everything will work out :-)

Thanks for the link - I'll get acquainted. Also, in the "big" topic on "French women" I found a recipe for HP.
Today I will not bake, most likely, I will carry out resuscitation procedures, since after 24 hours in the refrigerator in the morning it turned out that the leaven did not grow in volume. I transferred it to the boiler room - there we have 13-15C and left for work. Found the same troubles from himichka in October 2008, thanks to the forum, I will save according to her recipe. I will take a mixer, water, transfer it to liquid and feed it "Bohumila". It's warm at home, in the kitchen approx. 24 degrees, should rise.

It's warm at home, in the kitchen approx. 24 degrees, should rise.

Must, must grow!
Good luck to you!

I state the first fail. The "energized" sourdough did not rise overnight even in the warmth. It looks like nobody lives there. For now I left it as it is, in the kitchen, but I no longer cherish hope. I ask myself: maybe it was necessary to feed her not with Bohumila, premium flour, but with wheat flour 1c, 2c, which is more nutritious?

I'll wait for the moon of phase 1, put a new one.

Hello! Well, I just can't seem to get sourdough bread, or rather leavens die! I started making sourdough from another source, but I won’t find answers to my questions there! so it came to you, especially since the source is one, but different recipes! help if you can please !!! actually doing 🔗 this recipe. today I have 3 days, but the leaven is not active! here she stood for the last cycle of 17 hours, but practically did not increase in volume. I took 150 gr from the sourdough, added 150 flour and 90 water and put it again! Tell me, how many hours does she stand now? or throw it away? the smell is normal, the bun is quite dense, like dough on dumplings about! and after how many hours do you add flour again and how much flour? and when can I bake? the third day I try to figure it out myself, but I can't, my head is swelling already! help me please!

[vlasik]

vlasik, we have experience with this leaven. It was raised by the mistress of this topic https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=7314.0
She has information there about feeding, and about bread with this sourdough. I think she can answer your questions.
And here's what I don't understand:

today I have 3 days, but the leaven is not active! here she stood for the last cycle of 17 hours, but practically did not increase in volume

Why did you have it on the 3rd day for 17 hours?

Thank you! I'll go to study! I mean, 17 hours have passed since the last feeding!

[Viki]

Viki, I once had a liquid French sourdough. And so I decided to grow a new leaven. stopped at the thick. By the way of cooking, it looks easier, but then, as I understand it, difficulties arise with shifting and feeding. So how do you calculate, feed and contain a thick leaven?

So how do you calculate, feed and contain a thick leaven?

There are not so many difficulties, but there are. When growing thick, the problem is the first - it accumulates more lactic acid bacteria than yeast and it needs to be determined in the refrigerator for a day in order to reduce the number of bacteria MC. After that I gave her two days to feed "idle" until the scent of a real French woman appeared.
Feeding is not difficult, the main thing is that the fresh feed contains twice as much flour as water. It is more important that the amount of flour is greater than or equal to the amount of sourdough and in no case less.
Thick is easier to store and can be fed less often.
And in the recipe, count, let's say (took the first one that got caught):
flour 450 g
sparkling water 250 ml
butter 30 g
dry yeast 2/3 tsp
sugar 1 tbsp. l.
salt 2 tsp
starter culture 100% hydration 200 g - we consider:
Water 250 + 100 in sourdough = 350
Flour 450 + 100 in sourdough = 550
The simplest option is to take 300 gr. thick sourdough, which means it will contain 200 gr. flour and 100 gr. water. Let's add:
Water 350 - 100 in our sourdough = 250 gr.
Flour 550 - 200 in our leaven = 350 gr.
something like this.
I kept it in this version 1: 2 water - flour and in the consistency of bread dough, that is, for every 100 grams. flour was 60 gr. water. A very worthy sourdough.

Feeding is not difficult, the main thing is that the fresh feed contains twice as much flour as water. It is more important that the amount of flour is greater than or equal to the amount of sourdough and in no case less.
Thick is easier to store and can be fed less often.

With feeding, I also seem to understand everything. About the amount of sourdough / flour is also clear, so it should always be like that. Very tempting that you can store in the refrigerator and feed less often

starter culture 100% hydration 200 g - consider:
Water 250 + 100 in sourdough = 350
Flour 450 + 100 in sourdough = 550

The most confusing thing for me in this whole business
Why do we count 100% hydration? If then we take 300 g of sourdough and there are 200 flour and 100 water ... here I do not understand ...

Why do we count 100% hydration? If then we take 300 g of sourdough and there are 200 flour and 100 water ... here I do not understand ...

I tried to recount the recipe with 100% sourdough for baking with our sourdough. Therefore, at first I divided the leaven into flour and water, and then I began to count.

But I do not recommend storing it in the refrigerator, even thick one. The most valuable thing will be lost very quickly. And there will be a simple leaven - a mongrel.
In the refrigerator - only at the final stage of cultivation and no more than 24 hours.

Very good starter culture.
A very good site.
Thank you.

Vicki, please tell me how to store this starter and can I feed it twice a month?

Vicki, please tell me how to store this starter and can I feed it twice a month?

The so-called French storage method is ideal for storing French starter cultures. This is when the ripening period does not stop for a minute, but you can only slow down the process by placing the leaven in a cool place with a temperature of 10 - 12 * C, but not less than 10 *.
Option 1: 3 hours after feeding for 24 hours of storage.
Option 2: 1 hour after feeding for 72 hours of storage.
After such storage, it is immediately used in the dough without additional body movements feedings.
Can be stored at room temperature, but will have to be fed 3-4 times a day.
It is unrealistic to feed such a leaven twice a month. More precisely, with this mode it will be a completely different sourdough and you will not get all the delights of French pastries.

Thank you very much for your answer.

And you probably know how to do with rye sourdough? Please tell me - I'm completely new. And what is this "rye sourdough on hops" - who lives there inside - is it yeast or lactic acid bacteria? And how to do it?

what is this "rye sourdough on hops" - who lives there inside - is it yeast or lactic acid bacteria? And how to do it?

Wild yeast lives inside any sourdough. These are the ones. that surround us everywhere, fly in the air, live on our skin, white bloom on grapes, raspberries, zucchini ... And, of course, MK bacteria. Without them, leaven is not leaven. Yeast bacteria feed on their waste products.
Check out how to make a hop starter in this thread: Monastic leavens.

Save God.

Good evening everyone !!! Today is the third day my Frenchwoman is growing! How she equals me so white so soft just class

Today my Frenchwoman is four days old! Only she rose a little. I'll feed it and leave it for another day. And what should it smell like?

she smells of soaked apples, sweet wine, fresh kefir, mash - that's something of this
Now she's probably cold, that's why she doesn't grow much
to create ideal conditions for her, you can put a mug of boiling water in the micra and put a jar of leaven there. In the micra there will be about 30 * C, this is the temperature the sourdough likes. But then it certainly matures in 4 hours

Thank you! And if it ripens in 4 hours, can you bake on it?

sure you may! French women are generally active sourdoughs, fed in a low proportion - and it ripens quickly.
I’m actually liquid now, though I often transfer it to a thick state - so as not to oxyderate. The thick one grows in volume 3-4 times, and the liquid one 2.5-3 times for me. If I feed 50:50:50 and put it in a micra, then after 3-4 hours I already bake on it

I put it in the microwave for four hours. She grew up, I already bake on it !!!

I baked the first sourdough bread !!! But I have no strength to wait until it cools down, I will sleep in the morning, I will cut it and find out what happened!

I baked the first sourdough bread !!! But I have no strength to wait until it cools down, I will sleep in the morning, I will cut it and find out what happened!

[rinishek]

Here I am about the same ...
Our hero sleeps, and we toss and turn all night and wait for the photo of the cut.
Let's hope everything worked out!
rinishek, I'm at work tomorrow day, please, if everything worked out, give me a flower Condensed milk -

Thank you for your congratulations !!! The taste is just class !!! But in the morning I found only half a loaf !!! Someone got up earlier and had breakfast .... Well, half I took a picture! But I can't place it ... Well, I just can't ...