How I store and prepare old (sour) dough for kneading

[How I store and prepare old (sour) dough for kneading]

How I store and prepare old (sour) dough for kneading

There are enough recipes for wheat bread and with the addition of rye and whole grain flour on the forum, including my "creativity" and research with this dough.

In this topic I will show you how I store old (sour) dough.

In this thread Wheat bread made from old dough I described in detail the preparation of bread dough on an old (sour) dough.

In this topic, I will separately show how I store, nurture, and prepare fermented old (sour) dough for kneading the main dough for bread.

1. Beginning.
After kneading the main dough, I take a piece of dough weighing 200 grams and put it in a ceramic bowl. I never wash the ceramics, the dough dries well on the walls of the bowl and peels off, but a special microclimate is preserved on the walls inside.





2. Sprinkle flour on top of the dough



3. I close the cup convex glass lid, and put it in the refrigerator on a "warm" shelf.



4. The dough has stood in the refrigerator several hours, it rose, the top cracked, the yeast is working.


5. Crumpled the dough from the edges to the center, turned it over with the seams down, trimmed it - it turned out to be a cool lump

6. Sprinkle flour on the dough again, cover with a lid, put in the refrigerator for ripening



7. Now the dough will ferment quietly. and be indignant in the refrigerator, and I will use the dough when the need arises. The best, ripe dough is obtained in about 4-7 days. At this time, I don't bother the dough at all, it communicates in me "quietly with itself".



8. Take the dough out of the refrigerator, I put it on the table to warm up for 1-2 hours, during this time the dough revives a little, begins to "move".



This is how the dough looks inside - perky, sour, in holes. The smell is good, the taste is good sour dough.



9. I start to make the main dough on the old (sour) dough... I read in an old book, an easy way to knead a cool ball of old dough with a new dough.
I put a ball of old dough into the bowl of the combine, add a little water, turn on the combine (Kenwood) at 2 speeds, and break the ball in mashed dough, then add all the water put according to the recipe, still break the mass until smooth, get a homogeneous suspension of water and dough ...



10. Now I add to the suspension, all the ingredients for a simple dough (flour, salt, yeast), mix flour with yeast separately.



11. Kneading ROUGH doughjust to mix all the ingredients. This is necessary so that all the ingredients become friends, the flour swells and absorbs the liquid, the gluten swells, which will allow in the future, during the main batch, to determine the amount of additional water. If the flour is purely wheat, very little water will be needed, if it is whole grain, rye, then a little more water will be needed. But this method gives a good result, the dough is kneaded into a ball immediately.
After coarse kneading, I stand the dough for 15 minutes, it is no longer necessary, otherwise the yeast will start to work actively.



12. After kneading the dough to the desired consistency, formation of gluten, gluten threads, I stop the combine. How to knead dough in a food processor, I showed in the topic Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine.
Now I take a small piece of dough weighing 200 grams from the total piece of ready-made dough, and put it in a ceramic bowl, and everything starts over again - preparing the old dough and keeping it for a certain time in the refrigerator.
I use most of the dough for proofing, molding and baking new bread.
The main dough is prepared on the basis of an old (sour) dough, the ripening period of which is 7 days



Wheat bread with whole grain flour 50x50, on old (sour) dough



These are the little "wisdoms" that I use.

I hope that this topic will help those who cannot or do not want to work with sourdoughs ... and this method of souring dough will help you make wonderful and tasty bread without hassle ...

Wheat bread on old dough dough (oven)

Wheat bread made from old dough (Admin)

Wheat bread on ripe dough (self-leavening) (Viki)

Thank you, Romochka!
I hide everything in my bookmarks and also by hand in a notebook
husband says, what are you taking notes there? studying, dear! I've been learning all my life ...
Admin, my piece of dough somehow lay for several days, and the bread seemed more sour.
It is not necessary to renew it before baking as a sourdough?

[Winter]

Admin, my piece of dough somehow lay for several days, and the bread seemed more sour.
It is not necessary to renew it before baking as a sourdough?

Winter, I described everything in such detail, I even took a photo, and even wanted to write "I dedicate to the Winter!"

The whole process in pictures is recorded inside and out! The dough should have a certain sourness, smell - this is the old, sour dough, it fermented itself in the cold. This is somewhat similar to the fermentation process (simplified leaven).
If the dough is done correctly, then the bread will be good.

You do not need to soften the old dough, we immediately start the batch

Well, then you can think of many options for kneading the dough ...

I even wanted to write "I dedicate to the Winter!"

thanks Admin!
I asked about rejuvenation just like that ...
Itself in practice has already convinced that the older the dough, the stronger it is!
If I bake every other day, it comes up much slower.
Therefore, by softening we will weaken the dough, as I understand it ...

thank you very much!

Admin, I immediately apologize for the stupid questions - I'm just starting to bake bread. No bread maker, dough mixer - MUM 5 series. I read your post about sour dough, but did not understand: how much does the amount of yeast decrease when using sour dough? And one more thing: shouldn't fat be present in sour dough? I read all the time about sourdough bread, but I can't make up my mind, sour dough is easier to start with.
And yet, maybe not in the subject - but then poke, plz, where is the info: how to ensure that the sesame does not crumble from the surface of the bread? What to glue it on?

Admin, I immediately apologize for the stupid questions - I'm just starting to bake bread. No bread maker, dough mixer - MUM 5 series. I read your post about sour dough, but did not understand: how much does the amount of yeast decrease when using sour dough? And one more thing: shouldn't fat be present in sour dough? I read all the time about sourdough bread, but I can't make up my mind, sour dough is easier to start with.

Anna, let's start with the fact that you don't need an oven at all for baking bread - the bread is great, it turns out even better in the oven. But the kneader is needed for better kneading the dough.

Here are the topics with my breads on the old dough:

Wheat bread on old dough dough (BEGINNING)
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=71685.0

Wheat bread made from old dough
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=162046.0

The amount of yeast can be reduced to half, since the old dough already works partly as yeast, a leaven.
At first I try to make a simple dough in a food processor, without additives - and then I take a piece for storage, and then I make various additives to the dough, butter and others.

Sour dough bread is very easy to make - you just need to start, I hope my topic will help you understand the principle of the old dough and decide on it, decent bread!

Although, on the forum I have already met bread on an old dough without yeast - look in this thread Wheat bread on ripe dough (self-leavening) https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=69908.0 there was a sample and a link to it

Good luck!

Anna, let's start with the fact that you don't need an oven at all for baking bread - the bread is great, it turns out even better in the oven. But the kneader is needed for better kneading the dough.
Although, on the forum I have already met bread on an old dough without yeast - look in this thread Wheat bread on ripe dough (self-leavening) https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=69908.0 there was a sample and a link to it

Good luck!

Thank you, Romochka. By the way, I am by no means an opponent of yeast as such - I'm just interested in trying and comparing. But in order for the result to be correct, the proportions must be observed. In the previous post I added a question about sesame seeds - answer, plz.

Admin, sorry, maybe a big question: is the bread very sour?

Admin, sorry, maybe a big question: is the bread very sour?

Absolutely not sour! Any sourdough dough can be called "sour", but this does not mean that the bread will taste sour too (the sourdough itself is sour)!

But the taste of bread on sour (old) dough is very good, with a little sourdough taste and smell.

Admin, tell me, please, what is the optimal temperature in the refrigerator for your old dough.

Admin, tell me, please, what is the optimal temperature in the refrigerator for your old dough.

I change the temperature with the regulator at different seasonal times, but I found a place on the top shelf 10-12 * C - I like the dough

I change the temperature with the regulator at different seasonal times, but I found a place on the top shelf 10-12 * C - I like the dough

It is clear, it's a pity that I have 2-6 degrees on different shelves. ICD will definitely die out. And if so, maybe replacing part of the water in the recipe with whey or kefir will at least partially even out the situation, and while the dough is defusing, this sour milk will have a beneficial effect on the yeast?

I kept the dough on different shelves, including the leaven. It all depends on what you want to get, and the same Lyudmila has long changed her mind about storing starter cultures and dough in the refrigerator at low temperatures, the dough and bacteria live and multiply well if they are fed and put in a warm place

You just need to carefully observe the old dough, feed it, bake it - then try and evaluate the quality of the dough at the same time, the quality of the finished bread and choose the best option for your taste - this is your bread and your taste!

The old dough suits me, the bread turns out to be grateful, tasty, a little sourdough - a good option!

The old dough suits me, the bread turns out to be grateful, tasty, a little sourdough - a good option!

Thanks Admin. I love it too. And, most importantly, I add much less yeast.

Thanks Admin. The old dough is now always in my refrigerator. Now I bake not only in the KhP, but also in the oven, I have acquired a thermometer-knitting needle, thank you: rose: I did not work out with the leaven, I rarely bake, once every 7 days, just for the old dough. True, I like wheat-rye more, I customize the recipes for myself.

[Larochka]

Thanks Admin. The old dough is now always in my refrigerator. Now I bake not only in the KhP, but also in the oven, I bought a thermometer-knitting needle, thank you: rose: I did not work out with the leaven, I rarely bake, once every 7 days, just for the old dough. True, I like wheat-rye more, I customize the recipes for myself.

But, you are doing the right thing, that you adjust the recipes for yourself, for your taste
Yes, it is pleasant to work with the old dough, and the taste and smell are partly leavening, sour

Larochka , it is nice to hear that you liked my work, bake to your health!

So I am ripe for such bread! I kneaded the dough - I'm waiting! I tried to grow the sourdough itself, but this is a difficult case for me yet - I haven't ripened yet. The most interesting thing is what happens!

So I am ripe for such bread! I kneaded the dough - I'm waiting! I tried to grow the sourdough itself, but this is a difficult case for me yet - I haven't ripened yet. The most interesting thing is what happens!

Marina, read carefully my topics on sour dough, there are several of them, there will be questions - I will answer
It should work out, it's not difficult, but the result is worthy!

Tatiana, thank you! I read everything last week, tore off a piece! Today I re-read everything again, of course a confusion in my head - until you do it, it will not be postponed! While waiting for the result! If it is worthy, then I will post it, and if I ask anything!

OK! Good luck, I'm waiting for the result!

Here's what happened, so far only as a whole, as it cools down in the context of showing. The flour was wheat 400 gr + bran + fiber + flour with hazelnuts and chestnuts 100 gr. yeast added 0.5 tsp. exactly half of the required portion. (the batch was 1 kg, set aside 200 g). total weight 800 gr. the bun is so light or airy to the touch. Let's see tomorrow at the cut. I mixed it according to your technology, but in the HP: first, only the old dough, on the "Yeast dough" program until a homogeneous mass is obtained, and then when I loaded everything on the main one (in my Moulinex on pr 9). Cooking time 3 h 20 min.



I baked a little, but I put this mass at 1 kg, it was necessary at 750 gr. I stood for an extra 5 minutes.

Thanks Admin for the science!

[Marina]

Marina, It turned out GREAT! And how you want to look at the crumb and hear the impression of the taste I will wait!

Here is the cutter! In principle, there is a difference from baked in the usual way! The old dough was mixed from a / c + whole grain + bran + fiber, and baked without whole grain above I wrote). It turned out smoother, softer. The pulp is airy, elastic (very quickly takes on its original shape). The only crust turned out to be thicker, but these are trifles (I installed a lot of those), now I will know. Almost did not crumble, that is, only a little due to the drier crust! There is no acid at all in the taste and smell. It turned out to be a very tasty healthy bread! Now I will bake like that, I liked it! And as I get the patience, I'll start growing the sourdough myself! (the photo didn't work out very well)

[Marina]

Marina, a wonderful crumb turned out, smooth And the rest of the description and emotions appreciated
For me personally, such a dough is more suitable, since I am constantly not tied to growing sourdough. And the dough is well regulated by the resting time in the refrigerator, it's like a leaven - the longer it is renewed and stored, the better. But all the same, at some stage it is necessary to update the dough, as well as the leaven.

Marina, success and good bread! And what kind of bread turns out in the oven, you will rock!

Thank you! And when I need to bake in the oven, I don’t bake it, I have it with a double switch (first you bake from the bottom, light it up, and when you sing the top on to, then you need to light it on top).

Thank you! And when I need to bake in the oven, I don’t bake it, I have it with a double switch (first you bake from the bottom, you light it up, and when you sing the top on to, then you need to light it from above).

And the dough itself will tell you when the dough is not so good to taste. I keep the dough in the refrigerator for about 5-7 days, then it already sours. Well, this is already determined by our own observations
Eh, we will have to work closely with the oven, bread cannot be compared with a bread maker, especially on an old dough

So I'm waiting for the repairs to start in the kitchen, and I'll change it! I’m already looking! As the fry grows up a little, let's start! (he draws with everything he can in a quiet room on furniture, on the walls) not an apartment, but an art gallery with us (of the three the most talented)

This is wonderful! Already now you will know that the small one needs to be attached to the Stroganovka

This is wonderful! Already now you will know that the small one needs to be attached to the Stroganovka

Good afternoon, Tanya. After reading the topic, a question arose. How much flour does 200g of old dough use? After all, you need to know at least approximately - 300g and 1kg - the difference is huge. It's like yeast: if you put in a little, it won't rise well, if you put a lot, the smell is bad and it will break the roof of the bread.

[Tusya Tasya]

Tusya Tasya, Natasha, if Tatiana is not offended, I bake this recipe https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=162046.0

Albina, thank you. According to this recipe, almost half of the added flour is obtained by weight of the old dough.Do you also stand the dough overnight or just knead, a couple of proofs and baked goods?

[Natasha]

Natasha, I do everything as in the recipe, but in HP. Yes, I put the old dough overnight. And in the morning I add the rest of the ingredients. After 10 minutes of kneading, I pinch off a piece of dough 220-225 gr

[Albina]

Good afternoon, Tanya. After reading the topic, a question arose. How much flour does 200g of old dough use? After all, you need to know at least approximately - 300g and 1kg - the difference is huge. It's like yeast: if you put in a little, it won't rise well, if you put a lot, the smell is bad and it will break the roof of the bread.

In this thread, I gave methods of making bread on old dough, along with recipes, look at the links https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=159691.0

Albina, Thanks for the help

And yet, maybe not in the subject - but then poke, plz, where is the info: how to ensure that the sesame does not crumble from the surface of the bread? What to glue it on?

I can't find the answer))): girl_pardon: Tell me, someone, please !!!

Dilute starch with water, you can make a brewed, jelly, or you can make it raw. Lubricate with this water and sprinkle with sesame seeds.

Dilute starch with water, you can make a brewed, jelly, or you can make it raw. Lubricate with this water and sprinkle with sesame seeds.

And when, so that the dough does not settle?

Albina, Tatiana, thank you for your help. I looked at everything, understood, a piece of dough has already gone into the refrigerator to wait for its old age)))

At first, I didn't really read the recipe and didn't take a piece of dough. So the bread rested right on the HP lid. And my old yeast dough is periodically unplanned hanging out in the refrigerator. It then goes perfectly into this bread. I also used this dough several times for other baked goods. Great too.

[Natasha]

Natasha, also sometimes in the morning I put a dough from the old dough, and in the evening already the dough for kneading.

Yeah, good advice. Thank you, I'll take it on board.

Hello!
Thanks for the good advice.
I was interested in the spoke thermometer.
Perhaps there has already been a description of why it is needed and where to get it. Could you provide links to this information or duplicate.
I am learning to bake bread, but many things still fail.

[MASTER CLASSES FOR KNITTING THE Dough (BOXES)]

Information about the core temperature probe here Thermometers, oven temperature probes

Help section CONTENT OF THE INGREDIENTS AND ACCESSORIES FOR BREAD SECTION

Learning to bake bread CONTENTS OF THE SECTION "BASICS OF KNEADING AND BAKING" inside subsection MASTER CLASSES FOR KNITTING THE Dough (BOXES)

[Admin]

Admin, Tatyana, please give me a seat. I have "old" dough in the refrigerator all the time, I bake bread on it. But I'm leaving for 2 weeks - how can you save it? Should I put it in the freezer?

Olya, I've never done that, but you can try.

You can divide the dough into two parts for insurance.
Leave the first one in a jar (with a small hole in the lid) in the refrigerator, as you always store. And feed him before leaving.
Freeze the second part.

Upon arrival, activate the dough with flour and water.
So an experiment will turn out - how to save the dough and how to freeze it

And preferably, then share your experience

I had a case when the dough in the refrigerator stood for 10 days - the flight is normal

Leave the first one in a jar (with a small hole in the lid) in the refrigerator, as you always store. And feed him before leaving.

Tatyan, will it turn sour, will it go out? By the way, I keep it without a "hole in the jar", in a hermetically sealed ...

I keep it all the time - in a 300-400 ml jar. with a hole in the lid. He behaves normally, the air enters a little, this is enough and does not dry out. The hole is very small.

Thank you, I'll try ... By the way, about the hole - sometimes the jar opens slightly - and if I don't notice at least a day, the dough is covered with a crust! It dries as if ...

I have jars with a lid on which there is an open-closed "rocker", the valve is so small.And the hole is very small, it will not let in a lot of air, there will be no excess. And the lid fits snugly on the jar.

Understood, I will look for such a stray. As usual, Tatyana, I’ll find out about all the small and necessary pribluda from you! Wide mouth funnel, milk cooker, etc.